Microsoft extends Windows XP deliveries to May 30, 2009

Man, Microsoft just can't bring itself to kill Windows XP dead -- it just extended the final OEM and reseller delivery date for the venerable OS to May 30, 2009. Vendors will still have to place their orders before the official cutoff date of January 31, but they won't have to take delivery (or pay, we'd imagine) until May. All of this is supposed to alleviate the problem of vendors stockpiling copies of XP -- it wouldn't be good for Microsoft if manufacturers start charging a demand-related premium for XP licenses after Redmond goes Vista-only. Of course, Microsoft also recently extended the Vista "downgrade" deadline for OEMs to July 31 and netbooks will still be able to kick it old-school until at least June 2010, so chances are you'll be able to get XP one way or another until Windows 7 ships -- let's just hope all this waffling on XP means that 7's going to be as good as we think it is.

[Paul Chapel @ Dec 22nd 2008 11:38AM]

I just got my MacBook Pro in the mail last Friday. Thank the lord, I don't have to go through this downgrade insanity anymore.

[114 @ Dec 22nd 2008 11:41AM]

True. But now you have to keep up with the Apple trendies.

[Paul Chapel @ Dec 22nd 2008 11:47AM]

I was set against Windows 7, but I might install the bit torrent version in boot camp just to play around with it a bit. I don't hate Microsoft, but the PC community gives them way too much slack and keeps buying their crapware, which doesn't send Microsoft the right message.

I might not have access to all the games I want in OS X, but I refuse to suffer in silence anymore. Microsoft needs an intervention. If they want my money, they're going to have to work for it. I refuse to ignore Apple products just because a bunch of my friends (and me sometimes) are jealous of Mac users.

[114 @ Dec 22nd 2008 11:51AM]

Quote: "a bunch of my friends (and me sometimes) are jealous of Mac users"
Reply: It goes both ways. You are just the first one to admit it.

[Wwhat @ Dec 22nd 2008 12:08PM]

I honestly have never been jealous of mac users. (not even of their obvious wealth ;)
I also have 0 faith that windows7 isn't just a repackaged vista.

[Paul Chapel @ Dec 22nd 2008 12:12PM]

I was never jealous of Mac users either, until I started having a bunch of problems with Vista. I had a HP Pavilion notebook and couldn't get XP drivers for my Realtek network card or my Nvidia Geforce 8400M GS video card. A friend of mine had a Sony Vaio and couldn't get his sound to work when he downgraded. My best friend is actually a Mac user and he was just happily using his Mac as I experienced these problems. He gave me a bunch of apps for my MacBook Pro yesterday. I was worried that I wouldn't have all the software I needed in the OS X environment, but boy was I wrong.

If anyone here gets a new Mac this Christmas, I recommend these following programs. Final Cut Pro Express, Handbrake, Cyberduck, Keynote and EyeTV. I have a quite a few more, but these are the ones I've actually used so far. I have Call of Duty 4 on order, but don't expect to get it in until after Christmas.

You need a dongle for EyeTV, but my friend showed me how it works and it's really impressive if you want to record digital television or cable programs. You can also get a dongle that lets you pipe your console of choice directly into your Mac monitor.

[Quikboy @ Dec 22nd 2008 12:28PM]

What are you? An Apple employee? I find it pretty funny how you try to act like you've been unbiased and gave Microsoft some fair chances sometimes, but you act just like one of those Mac users who feel they have the best and most superior products, most likely because of the brand name.

Yeah, Microsoft has been pretty lazy for several years, but I'm glad companies like Apple have pushed some competition for MS. Maybe MS will finally remember that you should always be striving for the best, no matter how big you are. Anyway, I find some of the progress they've been doing in the past 2 years much better than some people would like to think.

Macbooks have had issues too. Go do a google/live search on this. There's plenty of forums, articles, videos, pictures, etc. on problems with Macs. I have a Sony Vaio, and it's fine. No matter what, people will always have a different opinion on how good a product is. Nice try, on 'trying' to put a "Switch to Mac" message on the last comment. How much are they paying you?

[Wwhat @ Dec 22nd 2008 12:41PM]

I'm sure macs are great, but they are more targeted at a different kind of person, different from me, people that don't mind not being in control (but do want things to work), I myself feel all uncomfortable on a fresh windows install for instance until I have a hexeditor and such installed, I need control, that's also one of the reason I'm not a vista type incidentally.

Note to nvidia/ATI: That I like control does NOT mean that I don't like installers and drivers to work without having to jump through hoops and using desperate tweaks I have to figure out on my own to get basic functionality, thanks.

[Paul Chapel @ Dec 22nd 2008 12:42PM]

Here comes the hyper-paranoid biaser people. The people who accuse Engadget of Apple bias at a drop of a hat and assume that every person that likes Apple products, in any way, has to be a plant or a secret Mac fanboy/employee.

Well, I agree with you on some points, Quikboy, as I haven't gotten used to the new MacBook pad button thingy yet, but it's only been a few days. And I've heard about some problems with RAM, but since I don't have quite 4 gigs, I can't verify that. I'm not blind to the possibility that a corporation like Apple might suck at some things, but that attitude is exactly what made me want to get away from Microsoft. I will continue to use XP on my desktop and OS X on my laptop.

I've had the luxury of having a friend that exposed me to a lot of stuff before I ordered my Macbook Pro, so I've actually cheated on my experience thus far.

[jakem @ Dec 22nd 2008 1:20PM]

So you bought a PC, installed an OS on it for which compatible drivers weren't available, ran into trouble and got so ticked off with HP/Microsoft that you had to abandon all the existing software and hardware you own and buy a Mac. Yeah right, that makes sense.

Had it occurred to you that Vista is fine and that you should have just left that on your laptop and saved a great deal of money.

[Jon Doe. @ Dec 22nd 2008 1:23PM]

Wait 2 years when you want to upgrade iLife and it doesn't work with the current OS. Meanwhile Office 2007 works with Windows 2000. I learned this the hard way with Apple: they will do everything in their power to leech as much cash out of you as possible. Which includes charging you for the updated version of the OS for your touch and 802.11N drivers for Tiger, and pushing developers as hard as possible to make their wares use the latest and greatest OS so people have to upgrade to use newer software. Apple can take their wares and go to hell with their clueless iTard fanbase who is still suck on the notion that Windows is Win 9x.

[Paul Chapel @ Dec 22nd 2008 1:36PM]

@jakem

Actually, I used Vista and it sucked so bad that I used XP again, which sucked since it didn't have the proper driver support for my new laptop. Therefore, I had to sale a perfectly good laptop because of a horrible OS that took six years to develop. Therefore, Microsoft wasted about a month out of my hectic life.

@John Doe

Dude, I got iLife and iWork for free. iLife comes with Macs; my friend gave me iWork. In fact, I haven't had to pay for any software yet. Not that I'm advocating pirating, but Mac programs are just as available as Windows programs on sites like Demonoid.

And I'm not worrying about support. iWork comes with full Office support. I've been able to open all my Word documents into Pages with zero problems. And really, how often do you need to read a file from the year 2000. That's kind of a silly argument.

[ViewRoyal @ Dec 22nd 2008 1:49PM]

In a similar move, Apple has offered to all customers purchasing new Macs the option to downgrade their operating system to Mac OS 9.

(Just kidding of course, but the idea of downgrading to an older operating system is just ridiculous ;-)

[joe @ Dec 22nd 2008 2:09PM]

@wWhat, who said "I myself feel all uncomfortable on a fresh windows install for instance until I have a hexeditor and such".

Me too. If you feel more comfortable on Windows, that's fine. It's a personal choice. I'm a programmer, and I don't care for Windows at all, for precisely the lack of control you refer to. I ran Linux for years to work (and play) in an environment I could see, and tweak, any part of.

These days I do everything on my mac. Sure, there's a gui layer on top that attempts to hide "details" from users, and does a pretty good job of it. But there's really nothing that you can't tweak on your own. I like to dig in and mess around with things - mostly I work in a shell terminal anyway. I've never run up against anything I wanted to do, and couldn't, on the mac. And compared to my experiences with Windows, it's like night and day in terms of "just working".

[Mark Anderson @ Dec 22nd 2008 3:36PM]

Downgrade to XP?

In God's name why?

[hexoDAT64 @ Dec 22nd 2008 11:38AM]

Good news. I still run XP and its great. I have another computer running Vista that runs just fine, but I tend to prefer XP. On higher spec machines its really fast and I know where everything is so why upgrade?

[Bookshelf @ Dec 22nd 2008 12:15PM]

Because of the 64 bit REVOLUTION!

[Testies, Testies, 1, 2... 3? @ Dec 22nd 2008 12:59PM]

This just in!

"Bittorrent extends Windows XP deliveries indefinitely"

[Wwhat @ Dec 22nd 2008 1:05PM]

I use XP64, yeah it does exists, and MS tried everybody to move to it at one point by offering a free online update to it, with a provision that you could not go back to 32bit though.

And XP64 is mostly OK I can report with the occasional manufacturer stupidly not releasing drivers for it though, and with some issues related to having to make a choice if a multimedia application/player is 64 or 32bit because the substructures like codecs can't be used in a mixed fashion, for example a 64bit player most always needs 64bit codecs, it's the nature of the beast.

Most all games work on it too, although most just run as 32bit apps with only 3 or 4 around that actually offer native 64bit versions.

I'm not sure how come so many people actually don't even seem aware that XP64 exists, it's most peculiar.

[114 @ Dec 22nd 2008 11:39AM]

Vista is actually not that bad once you get you use it. It should be fine for regular users. As for extreme gamers and hackers, I don't know.

[Electromodo @ Dec 22nd 2008 11:56AM]

I use Vista SP1 on a daily basis at home. I transferred all my old programs (some of them as old as 10 years), and they work fine, no problem. The games I run (including BioShock, C&C) work fine. Of course I upgraded the hardware before installing Vista. No problems with drivers.

On the other hand, there are problems with XP drivers on my laptop. I had to downgrade to XP on my new laptop because our vendor's software (DB2-related) does hang on Vista. I installed XP SP2 Professional, and I had a problem locating drivers for audio card and SATA controller. The laptop is brand new Toshiba Satellite.

So ironically - it's time to abandon XP because of driver problems on the new hardware.

[Fred @ Dec 22nd 2008 12:02PM]

Ummmm Vista is that bad. Im using it on a uber comp and i still get lockups/freezes

[Elora HRanma @ Dec 22nd 2008 12:14PM]

@Fred: I have seen Vista SP1 running in the EeePC 1000H and it goes perfectly smooth, even with Aero activated. The hiccups yo get would probably happen in XP too.
The only criticism I find acceptable for Vista are:
- It may be quite stubborn when asking for confirmation for most tasks, but being a Linux user myself, I gladly welcome the clear normal/dangerous action separation.
- People are still used to XP stuff and can find things easier. That's, actually, the biggest problem with Vista. It is half-way between old school management and a decent, soft link based personal folder, but hasn't got the mix right. If we are lucky, in Windows 7 we will be able to move complete personal folders to a drive other than Windows's to prevent data loss due to unexpected formating.
- It is ugly. Well, yeah. But XP is too.

[zephxiii @ Dec 22nd 2008 12:16PM]

@Fred, I believe your computer is to blame (or the loose nut behind the wheel), not Vista. Vista has been extremely stable on my older 939 X2 workstation, and 939 X2 HTPC. However my Dell at work has been a little flaky, but I have found that the integrated Intel graphics chip to be the cause.

[MJZimmer88 @ Dec 22nd 2008 12:26PM]

Vista isn't bad for your normal wear-and-tear computer using... as long as your computer can handle it. It's got it's neat little widgets and looks pretty... but the only reason anyone still bothers to use it is 'cause they're too lazy to backup their crap and reinstall XP... and by "they" i mean "me"

[chefgon_ign @ Dec 22nd 2008 12:39PM]

I've been using Vista since the public beta, and I've had zero problems with it. It does everything that XP does, but with a much nicer UI (which means more efficient and better thought out, not just pretty animations).

Sure, it might be an underwhelming update after it was in development for so long, but it's at least as good as XP and in my opinion better in quite a few ways. These people going crazy claiming that XP is actually superior to Vista are overreacting. Maybe the new features aren't worth shelling out $200 to upgrade, but jumping through hoops to DOWNGRADE once you already have it? That's just silly.

[Andir3.0 @ Dec 22nd 2008 1:01PM]

Anecdotal evidence that Vista was a turn for the worse this morning...

Someone in my office walked over to the Vista machine our employer is testing apps on and opened IE7 to find he had no clue where his bookmarks are. Why the HELL does IE7 on Vista hide the menu bar?

[Wwhat @ Dec 22nd 2008 1:12PM]

To call the GUI of vista 'more thought out' is an outrageous travesty, I'm sure you have a right to be a vista fanboy but there are limit and that is just a too big a lie.

[CreepinJesus @ Dec 22nd 2008 1:50PM]

@Wwhat ^^

So you'd rather search through 4 columns of a start menu to find your newly installed program that hasn't been automatically sorted alphabetically, instead of merely pressing the Start button and typing the first few letters of it? This 'Start menu search' feature is the best thing about Vista, and it has literally slashed the time it takes for me to get anything done.

[MagusDF @ Dec 22nd 2008 2:04PM]

its not that vista is all that bad
but can you remember another time in os history MS tried to endate an OS to the point where they had to dictate an endate to the market?

3.1 to 95 was no cotest
same with 95 to 98
ME sucked so it didnt need one
98 to 2k
2k to xp people resisted but there was no corporate effort to kick people off it
also the directx updates were cross compatible cross 2k/xp there was less segmentation

it ahas less to do with vista being bad as it does with MS activley rejecting xp and crying for attention for vista

[eggothewaffle @ Dec 22nd 2008 3:56PM]

I'm not an extreme gamer or hacker, but my Vista 64 SP1 (specs below) is far more responsive and significantly more *enjoyable* to use than my Mac Pro, even though the Mac Pro has twice the CPU cores and RAM and costs almost twenty times as much.

Strange how that works, eh?

Intel Q6600 3.0GHz | Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme/1 Scythe S-FLEX SFF21F
Abit IP35 Pro | 2GB x 4 G.Skill DDR2 800 | EVGA 9800GX2 | BFG 8800GTOC
E-MU 1616M | 1 x 400GB Hitachi | 2 x 250GB Western Digital
1 x 500GB Western Digital | 1 x 640GB Western Digital | 2 x 250 Seagate
Thermaltake Armor+ | Zalman 850W | Lite-On Combo IDE | Dell 2005FPW
Logitech G11 | Logitech G9 | 2 x KRK RP-5 | Vista Ultimate x64

[STINK @ Dec 22nd 2008 11:40AM]

So I wait to buy my next laptop. I was trying to hold off closer to the Diablo III release anyhoo.

[Oli D @ Dec 22nd 2008 12:10PM]

Its gunna be a mighty 2009 i can feel it,

screw XP disks, ive begun stockpiling microwave popcorn and iron brew ready for the Diablo playing season to begin!

[dazepro @ Dec 22nd 2008 11:44AM]

Why the hell do they even bother with extensions. Just let the public have what they want. SO STUPID!!!

[kjb434 @ Dec 22nd 2008 11:44AM]

Microsoft realizes that there is still a lot of profit to be had from the older OS.

I think they will keep pushing XP out the door until windows 7.

[Dave @ Dec 22nd 2008 11:56AM]

I Just dont understand. I am forced every day to work on windows XP since its mandatory in our office.

I feel sorry for all you poor suckers who use it willingly.

Im not a steve jobs lover and nore am I Linux geek. I just want something that works.

I will out of my pocket pay for my work computer if they let me use a Mac at work..

This would be a good poll. Woul you pay for your own office computer if it were a Mac.

Dont give me no cheesy remarks about ohh mac gay and so on. Cause every one I know who tried mac for over 2 weeks says just like me.

Windows is time wasting and idiotic. Just like driving a petrol guzzling Hummer on flat tyres in the middle of a 3 hour long Cue to work and home again. While any other system compared is teleportation

[pavlindrom @ Dec 22nd 2008 12:02PM]

There's 6 billion people, and are one of you. Why, you are not even a majority.

[sndmn23 @ Dec 22nd 2008 12:03PM]

>rolls eyes<

Yeah, that's what it's like.

[Bookshelf @ Dec 22nd 2008 12:03PM]

i've used a mac before... its so damn computer illiterate friendly i hated it.

[pavlindrom @ Dec 22nd 2008 12:03PM]

*there are one of you... proofreading holds great power.

[fanman @ Dec 22nd 2008 12:11PM]

Yeah! Windows is like a huge slow and tractor that keeps breaking donw and a mac is like a space rocket! Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... BEEP BEEP... Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...

[Oli D @ Dec 22nd 2008 12:13PM]

i'm not sure if low ranking was called for here, its a fair question.

I would pay for SOME of my work computer if it was a mac, but just because i am lazy and ignorant and i dont like change.

XPs ok, i have no qualms with it particularly, MS must have been doing something right if it ran for the majority of a decade.

[Greg @ Dec 22nd 2008 12:22PM]

Reasons why I will never pay for a Mac:

1. I can build a comperable windows based PC for a fraction of the cost of a Mac.

2. I want to be able to decide what hardware goes into my computer.

3. I want to be able to update the hardware rather than buying a whole new computer, and on most Mac models this is not possible (or SEVERELY restricted).

4. I want to be able to run the majority of software out there without having to intall another OS to do so (Boot Camp for XP).

5. I don't care about how a computer looks, and I'm not willing to pay more as a result.

What I'm looking for is function over form. Macs are good for some people, but the restrictive nature of the platform runs contrary to my needs. Heck, in my lab there are no Mac options for half the software that we use (some students ask). From our sequencer, to the RT-PCR the software is Windows only. This doesn't even get into the gaming aspect of things. Macs still suck at gaming, period. For less money than any Mac currently in production, I could build a Windows-based rig that would run circles around it's Mac counterpart.

[Paul Chapel @ Dec 22nd 2008 12:31PM]

I sounds like you're being honest, guy, but that doesn't really matter on Engadget forums anymore. As a PC user (maybe former now that I have a Macbook Pro) I'm disturbed at the behavior of a lot of other PC users. They're hyper-defensive about Microsoft. They're almost as bad, if not worse than a lot of the Apple fanboys.

So I suggest you follow the underwritten laws about comments if you desire to keep a high rank on Engadget.


The Official Guide to Avoiding Low Rankings on Engadget

1) Don't talk about Apple in any way positive, even if the praise is warranted and based on statistics, popular opinion, and actual sales.

2) Don't mention the iPhone in any Engadget post about a touchscreen phone, because as everyone knows, it is absolutely positively impossible that another company could be making a touchscreen phone because of Apple.

3) Don't suggest that Apple has innovated anything, because someone can always find an obscure company in Romania that did it first.

4) Don't suggest that a person might be a Microsoft Fanboy, because this is impossible, even if the aforementioned person has an Xbox, Zune, PC with Vista and every version of Windows minted in gold and platinum and a Bill Gates poster above the bed.

5) Don't say "First" under any circumstances.


Hope this helps! (before it gets faded :)

[DreamKiller @ Dec 22nd 2008 12:40PM]

well actually, given Apple's ads, i say mac users are hyper offensive.
But they still compare mac to PCs in the commercials, and PCs commercials don't need to do that.

[Paul Chapel @ Dec 22nd 2008 12:46PM]

Dude, I really doubt that Mac users have input on what commercials that Apple decides to put on the air. So your anger against Mac people seems to be misplaced.

[DreamKiller @ Dec 22nd 2008 12:50PM]

that was to respond the user above me. Of course you seem to nice guy lol. but it wasn't anger anyways, just an observation.
It's not like i don't use any Apple products. just not their computers.

[Greg @ Dec 22nd 2008 12:55PM]

RE: Paul Chapel

The attitude thing cuts both ways I'm affraid. Many of the Apple proponents here seem to think that Steve Jobs walks on water and, as in the case of Dave, that no one could possibly not want to use a Mac once they've experience the glory that is Apple. Well I have used a Mac (in school school from 2001-2003) and I prefer a PC; not Windows or Microsoft, but a PC. Why did Dave even post in this thread, heck why did you make the first post about your new MacBook when the article had nothing to do with Apple.

Attitude is not restricted to MS fanboys.

[Paul Chapel @ Dec 22nd 2008 1:05PM]

Well, I don't see what my first comment didn't have to do with Microsoft. They're extending XP and I expressed my frustration with Vista and the downgrade back to XP and decided to give something else a try. That's all I was saying.

People need to admit that they are alternatives. Some PC people act like everyone wants to build their own computer and save a bunch of money, even if they're dissatisfied with Microsoft. These people believe that saving a buck should be your only consideration when buying a computer. Some of us actually believe that you get what you pay for.

If I have to pay more for a better experience with Apple, then I'm willing to do that, and what's more, I feel it's time for a change. I've been using XP since I was in Junior High. I'm bored with it.

[Andir3.0 @ Dec 22nd 2008 1:16PM]

@Greg:

1. I'll give you that.

2. Ok, with you here...

3. You do know that Microsoft Windows will de-activate itself if you change too much of that hardware, right? Causing a re-activation headache. (It's headache if you have to do it at all...)

4. Can't really blame Apple for this... in fact, there's really only one company you can blame.

5. Agree

"to the RT-PCR the software is Windows only. This doesn't even get into the gaming aspect of things." -- Again, not really Apple's fault except for the point about putting in whatever hardware you want.

As a savvy consumer, you should be asking those people that make your programs if they run on more than one OS. If not, ask why. You should promote competition and avoid lock-in (from Mac and Windows.) It's for your benefit to use programs that you can move to another system if you see fit. Buying a windows only application is like buying a TV that only works with your home theater. It may "just work" but when your receiver is replaced, you'll need to find one that works with your TV and hope the manufacturer of your TV didn't decide to change the plugs. Of course, that analogy doesn't work in today's world because the home AV market is standardized for the most part and anyone cam make a stereo or a TV that work with another brand. Not being able to replace your OS with one that will run all your crap isn't the fault of the competition. There's only one company keeping that from happening by abusing patent and "IP" laws.