Zune HD gaming and app downloads confirmed: Twitter, Facebook, and 3D games on the way (updated)
By Thomas Ricker 
posted Sep 15th 2009 3:59AM
posted Sep 15th 2009 3:59AM
"Later this year, Zune plans to release free applications such as Twitter for Zune and Facebook for Zune, in addition to fun 3-D games such as "Project Gotham Racing: Ferrari Edition," "Vans Sk8: Pool Service" and "Audiosurf(TM) Tilt." Games can be added to Zune HD via Zune Marketplace over the Wi-Fi connection or when connected to the Zune PC software."Hear that Nintendo, Sony, and Apple? There's a new handheld gaming platform in town. All that remains to be seen is how it will integrate with the Xbox 360.
Update: A bit more is revealed in a Seattle Times Q&A with Brian Seitz, Microsoft's Zune marketing manager. At the moment, the strategy is to keep all the apps and games free and developed in-house or in close collaboration with third parties -- no third-party SDK for devs to freely crank out apps just yet. Seitz is clear that games will be the primary focus of the "sometimes-connected" Zune HD and the Windows Marketplace is Microsoft's priority for handheld app development:
"So what we didn't want to do was build two parallel app store experiences that didn't work together. Right now our product roadmaps didn't line up perfectly for us to snap to what they're doing or vice versa... Down the road if there's a way we can work with Windows Mobile or another group inside the company that's building an app store and take advantage of that, that's something we'll look into."Man, Windows Mobile 7 and the rumored OneApp app store can't get here soon enough.
Zune HD FTW! :D
Apps and games sound great. The Zune HD sounds like it's going to truly go toe to toe with the iPod Touch. Weather, calculator, Facebook, and Twitter apps are all going to be free.
Technical specs of Nvidia Tegra chip are here: http://www.insidethecircle.net/2009/09/welcome-to-40.html
# Featuring Nvidia’s Tegra APX2600
* ARM11 MPCore CPU
o 64KB L1 Cache (32KB for instructions, 32KB for data)
o 256KB L2 Cache (unified)
o Up to a 600MHz clock speed
* Ultra-low Power GPU
o OpenGL-ES 2.0 Support
o 47M Triangles /sec (peak)
o 24M Drawn Triangles /sec (peak)
o 600M Pixels /sec (peak)
o 240M Textured Pixels /sec (peak)
o Programmable pixel shader
o Programmable vertex and lighting
o Support for CSAA (Coverage Sampling Anti-Aliasing)
* HD Audio/Video Processor
o Web-based flash video is hardware-accelerated (flash playback currently not supported by the Zune HD)
* ARM7 Core (for supplemental audio and video processing)
* Fabricated with TSMC’s 65nm process
* 12mmx12mm in size
Here are some of the hardware specs for the new iTouch by comparison:
Arm CortexA-8 version7-A 833MHz underclocked to 600MHz
256MB RAM
PowerVR SGX535 (28 MPolys/s)
All they need now is a 64gb. Then ipod touch will be down the drain with its fan....
I hope they fix the installation issues. I'm going to sleep now. It's stuck at "downloading components...100%"
This is going to obliterate the iTouch when it comes to 3D performance and gaming.
Game over, so to speak.
And for those of us who don't keep up to date on our mobile processors and GPU's, what the hell does all that mean?
Sucks for you, Tiptup. My install went smoother than butter if that's even possible. Took no more than 2 minutes.
Those specs you list, if shown to be better in everyday Zune HD use, don't always guarantee huge sales or justice within the marketplace... Classic spec-spread match upsets like Beta vs VHS, PSP vs DS come to mind. I like the looks of this thing but don't count out the pricing, capacity, and apps that the Touch has going for it.
The touch has a larger, higher pixel-count screen, a WebOS based browser that works very well, whole suite of apps on it already, mobile OS X on a third revision, higher capacity available, parity in pricing with the Zune, and most importantly a huge lead with its proven track record of devs, apps, music, movie rentals and purchases. You can't act like it's not gonna be a huge challenge for MS to even dent the sales of the Touch. This thing will do well ("do well" in Zune terms, I mean... not "do well" iPod numbers) but where this platform will really take off is when MS offers a phone to complement the Zune HD. Which is apparently next year...
im sooo getting the new zune. my zune 30 is sweet but the new one is much more sweet
Nvidia Tegra uses DDR1 as opposed to PowerVR SGX535 use of DDR2, which mean the Tegra has a performance bottleneck. :(
If they can get all that on a 65nm process, what the hell will they be able to squeeze in there when 32nm becomes the norm? 4 core CPU's and SLI GPU's. Technology, dont you just love it! Note to Microsoft, please please please bring it out in Europe, I really really REALLY want one of these and I would rather like to get one without having to import!
@Tipup
Uninstall the old software first.
To put the HW in perspective, read;
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/09/14/from-oled-to-tegra-five-myths-of-the-zune-hd/
Th processor part is really enlightening and the first time I see even a video that compares the different ARM architectures,
for me the whole tegra thing is blown out of proportion and it seems new ARM core has way more performance,
memory architecture is DDR1 on zune so all is throttled down even more
Since that article is from roughlydrafted I think I'll wait until Tom's Hardware or Anandtech look at it.
You know, people who aren't absolutely insane.
@vdb
RoughlyDrafted is an Apple fansite. It's not objective and rarely points out the positives of OTHER products.
LOL @ thinking roughlydrafted is in any way impartial or accurate. :)
BTW, I suspect that in the next few months, we'll see an XNA update (currently at 3.1 - maybe it'll be a full 4.0 which would match the new Zune software rev) that will allowed game makers to target the new Zune hardware. Although quality indie games are few and far between, there really are some gems on there that would work better on a mobile platform than on the 360.
Roughly drafted is indeed biased, but please point out where in the hardware portion they are wrong. Facts are facts, y'know? A chip is a chip is a chip. Hard to argue with that!
While agree with the bias of RD,
I read the data sheets of all the main components, and they confirm what he mentioned ...
So my take is that there will be no major leap in performance which everyone is expecting.
And we will never know for sure until independent developers can port their app to both platforms using the native API's, and compare performance.
read here, ARMv7 simd is up to 400% faster ... no bias, pure facts from arm ...
http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/architecture.html
The thing about Roughly Drafted is . . . If you report the truth about Apple and Microsoft, then you will sound biased. Why do people think that objectivity means making the bad look good and the good look bad?
@ ill trooper
As much as people want to pass you off as an apple fanboy and as much as I HATE apple I have to agree with your statements. The truth is the truth. Apple could outsell the Zune if they put their logo on a bag of rocks, just because the general mass just isn't technologically savvy enough to find out what they're paying for. 8/10 people buying ipods and Zunes never look at the spec sheet. As someone who as worked on an IT helpdesk you would be amazed at the criteria people use to buy one device over another (Colors it comes in, who makes it, if everyone else has it than it must be good, etc....). Remember, we techies are an elite class that actually know what we're buying.
@Mark: Too bad the bit about the OLED is almost entirely fabricated and what isn't is over exaggerated. Check the wikipedia entry for OLED and you can see an unbiased list of advantages/disadvantages. The only thing in that article about OLED that isn't outright false is the shorter lifespan. But considering the low end lifespan(before it even starts to get worse) of an OLED screen is being used for 5 years at 8 hours a day, every day, I doubt you'll run into that problem before updating to your next player. That article is ridiculous and incredibly biased(and in many/most cases just flat out wrong).
@vdb
Which is why I'm waiting for Tom's Hardware and Anandtech because whilst RD most certainly has an agenda they don't.
Also, I think you'll find taking a single or a couple of chips in isolation isn't a good way to measure overall performance. It's how the platform is put together and how the firmware that runs on that platform works that determines how well it'll work.
So let's wait and see what people who actually know what they're talking about say after they've run the relevant tests, OK?
Another problem with the RoughlyDrafted piece: it's comparison of Quake demos is completely skewed.
The iPhone run is at 480x320, while the Tegra is running at 868x480, better than 2.5x the pixels. But what skews the comparison even more is that the Tegra is running with antialiasing and anisotropic filtering on, and the iPhone isn't. Slot this down to the Zune's 480x272, and not only should the framerate be terrific, but the image should look a lot better with AA and AF on.
The hardware in the Tegra may or may not be revolutionary, but apparently the folks at NVidia know a thing or two about optimizing the crap out of 3D graphics display. Hard to believe, I know.
Also, I'm a little stumped on how shipping a radio that delivers a bunch of digital channels in addition to the FM analog broadcast -- while the Touch, unlike the more advanced Nano, can't deliver any radio at all -- is a bad thing. Shame on Microsoft for supporting a format that radio stations are starting to broadcast in. What are they thinking?
Even worse, a product only being released in the US doesn't support European digital radio, though it does get analog. Which, if I'm not mistaken, gives it a leg up on the Touch.
But, of course, he suggests getting a separate portable radio, if you want radio. Perhaps an iPod Nano, to go along with your poorly-featured Touch?
So noone addresses the poor OLED performance in sunlight?
how convenient....
not trying to fan the flames or anything, just seems that every bullet point has been "debunked" so far except for that.
Logic I will gladly handle that. My OLED screen on my zune HD looks awesome in the sunlight outside. Ironically this is one of the few days I could of tested this in SF. But the screen was clearer then my coworkers Iphone.
If you think Roughly Drafted has any credibility whatsoever please read this article posted explaining why NOT having third party apps on the iPhone was a good thing.
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/9FB758E7-CA6E-415F-828D-08F01471F6B5.html
Yep reading it today is really hard without busting up laughing. EVERYTHING he says negatively about other mobile phone vendors applies directly to the iPhone platform today. I can imagine if you asked him what makes the iPhone platform great he would look at you straight faced and without any hesitation tell you it's 100% the appstore, not even aware of any irony. It would be absolutely hilarious if this guy was a troll, but unfortunately he's completely genuine.
@logic
Not only is the OLED display VERY bright, it's depth is amazing. I held it next to my coworker's iPod Touch and it was downright embarrassing to see the Touch next to the HD. He even laughed at how bad it looked.
1) the blacks looked decidedly gray, thanks to backlight
2) in direct sunlight, the Zune HD was far easier to read
3) more vibrant colors, also seemed more responsive during animations. No ghosting on the Zune HD
One extremely important perk for me: I wear polarized sunglasses which greatly reduce glare, but reading an LCD with them is next to impossible. On the Zune HD it actually improved it because any glare that was on the glass surface was muted and the display itself wasn't diminished at all, unlike LCDs.
Okay, It's decided.
I'm upgrading.
I'll have no problem since the MyTether app on my Palm Pre creates wifi anywhere out of my 3G connection when I need it...
Will your iPhone do that? (seriously)
@iClap
Yea, well he's not the one who pays $30+ extra per month to his mobile phone company, just so he can do what you just did. Lets see, 30 x 12 = (at least) $360 per year. If you keep your phone for 2 years that's $760 extra you're spending, ON A PHONE. Is the internet really *that* important to you? Take your eyes off of your screen and look around, it's a beautiful day.
@iClap
No, it's not a phone but i will be able to use my actual phone for my phone calls and use my ad-hoc wifi from my HSDPA phone to get faster internet over the network than you can get with your iPhone.
I'm upgrading as well. Does anyone know if the 32GB comes in Black? Might have to green if not.
@iClap
I aleady have a phone. I didn't pay for it - it came free on my £30/month contract and is a very good phone with better phone and camera features than an iPhone. It also plays music, but i'd rather have better sound quality so i'll also get a ZuneHD imported. It just means that i can upgrade my phone free every 12 months and keep the same music player until there is something better available, saving me quite a bit of money.
So how am i a loser again? oh it must be that i don't spend hundreds of pounds extra every year to have an iPhone with worse features than i can get with my phone/zune combo.
@iClap
So by your logic, all ipod touch users are losers too...
On another note, engadget fix the commenting system please
Upgrading? To what?
@iClap
Since when am I not allowed to carry both a Cellphone and a PMP?
you mean the same way you're carrying an extra portable radio?
Oh boohoo, we'll never get that second analog stick from anyone. Oh well, this announcement has me just about sold.
Dude, this comment makes me love you. I hope you can deal with that.
Awesome, my only trepidation with the HD is gone. Time to order.
This is why Apple decided to push the iPod Touch as a gaming device.
no?
I don't know about that... Those iPhone/Touch games didn't suddenly happen last week. I think Apple's push for making people aware of the Touch as a 'gaming machine' is likely due to the games explosion on the platform and the rising quality bar of games that's been occurring on the platform since the AppStore launched last year. *That* is actually why Microsoft has decided to focus on it as well. After the success of the App on the iPhone/Touch, it's the logical area for all of these devices to promote as a strength.
all they need to do to sell this thing is add achievements to the games that are linked to your 360 gamertag and give you gamerpoints.
seriously.
@Daniel
I think you just hit one out of the park with that idea. I would also spend some time trying to port some of the xbl arcade games to it as well.
I believe they came up with the Gaming machine idea as a lame excuse as to why they couldnt get the camera to work by launch. There is plenty of evidence to support that it was originally going to have a Camera. Just look at specs for cases for it. Whats the camera hole for?
Huzzah!, Now just get it out all over the world please Microsoft, we Aussies are literally standing on our heads to get some of this Zune action in our small, but awesomely large kangaroo eating country.
Yes, as I believe the only country to eat our own national emblem!!
But yes please microsoft. Worldwide release soon would be awesome :D
Canadians eat Moose... and beaver ;)
You Aussies are going to be waiting a long time.
The HD Radio in Zune HD, does not mean High Definition it means Hybrid Digitial which is the American standard for digital radio broadcasts; it is proprietary to USA, sold by iBiquity rather than an FCC standard, and not used elsewhere in the world.
So, before Zune HD can have an international launch the 'problem' of different DAB standards in different territories needs to be solved.
You have no idea how annoying this is for the rest of us.
"We could blow the iPod out of the water, but we don't want to yet. Or do we? Maybe at Christmas? Or maybe just some 'software solution'? Or maybe not at all."
the welsh eat dragons
@vanillacide,
I know that. But it is still extremely frustrating not to be able to have a half decent device other then the usual overused ipods. For me, when it comes to DAPs, I have ipods and a Samsung stick player at my local electronics store. They laugh at me when I say I want something different.
Change would be nice.
@copeys: didn't say it wouldn't be, change is good and competition is required to drive the best out of everyone.
It's annoying that Microsoft chose Hybrid Digital Radio -- and sort of imply that it is "high definition" radio -- when they would've been better off with FM in my opinion. At least that way they could sell the Zune HD globally, but this way the radio is limited to the USA, which more than likely means the device is too.
Until they solve the digital radio problem -- maybe they will put a different DAB radio in for each territory, maybe they'll replace it with FM -- it's likely that we'll only see Zune HD in USA and those who gray import it will be disappointed with a non-functioning radio function.
Yes please MS, I live in Oz also, have a Zune, but pleeaaassseeee release the Zune HD asap here, otherwise another ebay purchase it is!
You ZuneWads should read this before extolling the virtues of the new Zune HD. It's obviously Apple slanted but some of the points they make would prevent me from buying a Zune. The point about the OLED display would be my main concern.
ttp://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/09/14/from_oled_to_tegra_five_myths_of_the_zune_hd.html
You'll never see this in Australia or anywhere outside of the US. One of the main features, the HD Radio, Is only compatible in the USA.
@Vanillacide:
http://www.siport.com/products/sp1010.html
Apparently it can do analog AM and FM. Would have been nice to see DAB+, but o well.
Ooookay, so now everybody is becoming a "gaming" platform?
Twitter, facebook, it's as if MS is making the Zune as its own "OS." Gee, what's next, the Zune phone? :) Maybe MS will have Winmo 7 for the OEMs, and the "Zune OS" for its own phone? Time for the analysts to start cracking some speculations here.
Your complaining about added value to a product?
@FordGTGuy: You're assuming anybody that doesn't act like a Zune fanboy to be "complaining"?
The Zune has had games and XNA support for quite a while now. The Zune HD is getting a power Tegra chip and whats the point in having it without using its potential?
@FordGTGuy: Who said Microsoft shouldn't use the potential of the Tegra chip? Are you going to keep on making assumptions just because I'm not acting like a Zune fanboy?
No i'm just going to keep replying to annoy you.
@FordGTGuy: Excellent. Thank you for admitting that you're just a troll. Bye now.
You did have somewhat of a complaining aspect to the voice I played in my head while reading your post.
-
Yo, FordGTGuy, I know you're trolling and I'mma let you finish, but iclap is still the best troll by far.
@pika2000 Excellent. Thank you for admitting that you're just a troll. Bye now.
@denrocks1 Excellent. Thank you for admitting that you're just a troll. Bye now.
Audiosurf? Oh yes! I hope it can use any song on the device and not just some preset tunes.
Me too. I remember thinking that Audiosurf would be great for a portable media device like this.
Facebook? Twitter? Games? Smart DJ? I don't know what I'd do without Microsoft and all these groundbreaking innovations!
maybe continue with the act of trying to be: a funny, hipster, cool apple fanboy.
Apple didn't have any of those first.
get ready for the fanboy rip-off comments, first they claim anyhting with a touch-screen ripped the iphone off and now they think fanboys are being copied from the iphone fanboys as well
Ridley... Duh. Of course we know the Zune HD is arriving later to this whole thing, and offering some functionality later than some other devices, but this is MS's first device like this and therefore it has to start somewhere, right? So although we've seen much of this before, we haven't seen a ZUNE that has had it. If it DIDN'T have it, it would raise even MORE eyebrows.
It's like copy-and-paste on the iPhone... Who really cares if it came late? Coming late is better than never coming at all. MS had the benefit of seeing the last two years happen as they prepped this thing, and added the important ingredients. I'm not mad at 'em. As an Apple fan, I will definitely remember the timelines (which I politely keep to myself unless pressed), but I'm not mad at MS, this is a good device.
Hoo hoo they're ripping me off Robin...
Apple Fanboys.. the Howard Sterns of computers, phones, and mp3 players.
O & A -
the KIRF virus of talk radio
Humm.. I'm not sure... Not many people go from the 'real thing' to the KIRF version...
And you'll find more Ex-Howard Stern fans listening to O&A than the other way around.
Just sayin.
And the rollercoaster begins.....:)
Gonna pick it up here in a few hrs!!! Cant wait . . .
I wonder if they'll also use the "this is a gaming platform" excuse to explain why there's no camera.
I think they'll push the "seriously do you need a camera in everything you own" approach.
But devices that can access Facebook and Twitter via wifi/mobile networks can really benefit from a camera. People really love that shit. I think MS just didn't see its importance on the horizon, and likely breathed a huge sigh of relief when it didn't show up on the Touch, and I think Apple fucked up a little by not carrying over the iPhone's innards (camera/GPS/compass) to the Touch.
Look at all the people who have iPod Touches, who don't have a Flip Camera or other pocket camcorder. I was looking forward to getting a new iPod Touch, and being able to record videos and upload them over WIFI like the iPhone does. WIFI uploading would make a Flip camera obsolete.
Yeah... everything has a camera these days... but not all of them upload video directly to Youtube or Facebook. That's the killer feature.
The Flip Camera is the most popular pocket camcorder... but you have to wait till you get home, plug it in, THEN upload. Apple should have jumped into that game already...
The Nano can record video... but you still have to carry an iPod cable with you to transfer the files... yuck.
Honestly, I wish a lot of you would STOP taking pictures and filming things and uploading them. At some point, having a digital camera turned about 78% of the population into annoying attention whores.
Frankly, I think LESS consumer electronics should have cameras. It's getting so you can't go anywhere anymore without some idiot capturing it on video or still.
Holy %#$@ the picks one the marketplace are awesome and of my taste for once! This thing is recommending me some Rush, Queen, The Who, Jeff Beck, Yngwie Malmsteen, Judas Priest... OMG YES! You finally got to know me Zune. It was annoying before when it kept recommending me some Creed, Nickelback, and Avenge Sevenfold for no apparent reason. It is still pushing me some Motley Crue though. Which is not as bad but I'll pass.
It kinda works like Netflix now.
OOOOOOOMG HOW INOOOVATIVE!
Ever used Apple Genius?
@DoorsnotWindows
If you have a Zune Pass, Smart DJ draws on not only your collection of music but also the entire Zune Marketplace.
they've had a "genius" type program before Apple ever even thought about it. it was the "Just For You" section. it wasn't as in depth, or good. but Apple didn't invent the wheel. they didn't discover fire. they didn't invent electricity. almost every company that exists since something like 2000, has reinvented the wheel, and you fanboys just assume that apple invented the wheel, and everyone else is ripping them off and making their own versions.
I hate this new giant split between apple fanboys and MS fanboys. it's so stupid. they're both Heretics. It's clear, by the facts, that the Zune is the superior PMP on the market, I'm not saying that out of fanboyism. I believed the iPod touch was the superior when it was out. things change. this is called FREE MARKET. competition, companies borrow from each other and improve. jesus.
PAPIJUMP PLEASE!!!!
now if only they let us know about an SDK so I can start developing!!!!!!
Ditto, Me and a few friends are already starting on trying to put together some Zune HD games. I say start with XNA and C#
Their won't be a public SDK (that what MS is saying). They are waiting for the WinMo team to launch the Marketplace and tap into it later on. http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2009/09/15/no-third-party-application-marketplace-for-the-zune-should-plug-into-windows-marketplace-for-mobile-in-the-future/
Like Duscrom said... XNA is a good place to start. I'm sure in the coming months, they'll be updating XNA Game Studio (currently at 3.1 with older Zune support). It probably won't happen until MS has their store strategy in place though.
I wonder how long before its sold in canada
Never. The HD radio, one of the main features, is not compatible outside the US.
This is so gonna eventually be a phone
lol, Calculator.
Missing Notepad :P