Pablo Picasso is quoted as saying, "good artists copy and great artists steal." Good thing the quoter was Steve Jobs then, because the latest Apple patent application to go public looks very much like something
Johnny Chung Lee pieced together
with a Wiimote way back in 2007. Filed for in June 2008, the new patent is for a system tracking the location of the user's head and responding to his movements in a fashion that should generate a realistic three-dimensional viewing experience sans
those pesky glasses. We've got video of Johnny's setup after the break, and as he himself describes it, the idea behind a "desktop VR" is to unbound imagery from the screen surface and to make your monitor or TV act like a window unto whatever is being displayed. That means Apple will need a new branding scheme should this application turn into a real product -- iWindow just might be the least likely product name in the history of consumer electronics.
posted December 17th 2009 8:22AM
hmm - this tech is better for consoles and TVs. I guess sony and PSeye missed the boat. Still cant believe no one has patented this.
PS I did my own version for WinMo :)
@(Unverified)
Hey Engadget, the Source link is wrong. It should be:
http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=20090313584&OS=20090313584&RS=20090313584
@(Unverified) What's great about that is that you don't need to / shouldn't be able to patent it. There's a MOUNTAIN of prior art in the public domain already.
I installed one of these on my Touch Pro that used just gyros to figure out and display a "realistic 3d" based on my viewpoint. Tracking the user is the next logical step, as evidenced by the almost 3 year old example in the Youtube video (and countless other researchers beforehand).
Apple likes to file patents, but they're usually not granted.
@Engadget - Are you people trying to say J.C.Lee invented head tracking!?
Jeez, the tech has been available for at least two decades now in some form or another, and yes it has been combined with 3D graphics to match movements to the graphics. Get yer facts straight!!
@Heliosphan Right - Johnny Lee didn't invent head tracking, nor its use for controlling 3D display on a 2D screen - but certainly Apple didn't either.
Presumably this patent is for something more specific, otherwise it's total bulls**t. Actually, given that the important, original concept (above) is decades old - I can't imagine anything related that wouldn't be an obvious use of that existing technology, such as the one shown in that diagram, which means this patent is, whatever it's for, total bulls**t.
@(Unverified)
Considering that the patent office won't grant Apple a patent for something that's already been patented, isn't it kind of completely blatantly obvious that whatever patent they're trying to get is for something more specific?
I mean come on. Common sense, people. Use it.
@Jack, the patent office WILL give out a patent for something that's already been patented, simply because they are overworked and don't have the resources to always identify the previous patents.
This specific work was patented by Michael Deering starting as early as 1992:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=0&f=S&l=50&TERM1=head+tracked&FIELD1=TI&co1=AND&TERM2=&FIELD2=ABTX&d=PTXT
In some countries they have a system where the approve patents but it's up to the one applying for it to check if it was previously patented and if so their patent is voided automatically without laborious trials. and suits, and without getting their money back.
seems that at some point the volume of patents is so large that that would be the only manageable system, because automatic search can do only so much, and nobody can memorize all patents.
Of course this case is rather simple, every fool realizes this was done before, and even putting special computer scenario limitations on it is not likely to work, but perhaps they should word it "a system where a users uses an apple computer running apple's OS.. blah blah.." to narrow the application field.
@Heliosphan Agreed. Even if Lee was the first to suggest something that worked by tracking the viewer's position (not saying he did), would he be the only one with the right to make it actually work? Would manufacturers and designers have to sit on their hands and buy licenses to make peripherals for the one, the only? We we as comsumers have to wait and hope that Lee will someday produce this in mass quantities? Nope.
@(Unverified)
uh, lee works for project natal,
as one of the lead on the technical aspects team.
so well. this might start to get a little ugly.
This would be ace for viewing 3D CAD objects.
It's a shame that most of the CAD programs I need run on Windows if Apple implement this... unless Rhino 3D & Solidworks jump ship to OSX (in anything other than Beta).
@Herbaceous Border Patrol. or gaming.
for day to day computing by the average folks, it would be overkill. then again, perhaps Apple is counting on making huge bank with royalities when all the Windows hardware companies want to add it to their machines as a hype point for why they are better than Macs (like they do with built in Blu-ray).
At least until Apple is ready to show the world how to do it 'the right way'
Project Natal is sitting in the back office laughing hysterically.
@(Unverified) why is everyone so unimpressed with this? i think the effect is very cool, and i guess i'm a noob when it comes to this tech, because i've never seen it before. I know that Natal tracks your head and the rest of your body, but i've never seen a tv produce a 3D experience or window experience like this before
@bigdonny
No one is impressed because after watching some Natal demos, this is so... erm... six months ago. :D Seriously, head tracking? This gets a post on a cutting edge gadget site? If it wasn't Apple that was patenting this device, you wouldn't hear a thing from Engadget.
@(Unverified)
The problem being that Apple filed this patent more than six months before Project Natal was just a flash in someone's eye.
If Apples patent stands, Microsoft will be paying them royalties in order to release Project Natal.
@airmikee
Project Natal wasn't just conceived one day and realised the next, I hope you understand. If my understanding is correct, then most of the Natal tech (at least the tracking technology) wasn't even done in-house by MS but rather by an Israeli company. Quite some time before Apple patented (or tried to) anything.
I'd love to see Apple trying to request royalties from Natal from MS. It's going to be like a Michael Bay movie.
@bigdonny We've seen this so much before... It's not anything new.
This is just a huge example of how crazy IP law is here!!! I feel like the big arguments for patents were to protect inventors from big businesses, but now it seems like they are serving the purposes of big businesses shutting people down for trying to be innovative.
@Atkins
First of all, your comma usage is all wrong. Secondly, if you're asking them them if they're serious, you might want to use a comma. It should be: "Wow Engadget, Really?"
Thirdly, we can't read minds and thus have no idea about what you are so offended.
Oh snap, correction fail. It should read: "you might want to use a question mark."
This is revolutionary
/Sarcasm off
@draftdubya
Sarcasm only works if you're referring to something somebody actually did or said. Apple never claimed it was revolutionary. Thanks for playing, but you're going to have to find something else to bitch about.
@draftdubya
I bet Jack has an Apple tatoo
First time I saw Johnny Chung Lee video I thought that was amazing, but later I realized that the system it's not as good as one may think; that's because you have to move your head to have the 3D illusion. This is not the case with 3dGlasses, with 3d glasses you perceive 3d shapes an depth, even when the scenery is still, because of the sterographic view. With head tracking you have to move your head..imagine use it to 3D drawing if you don't move your head is just like seeing a 2d image. For gaming is the same how many of you move around the sit when playing?
@ste
The point of head tracking is to change a screen from a flat image into a perceived virtual window.
Kind of like when you look out of a window and a nice girl walks by you get up to check her out as she goes out of view. So you change the position of you head in order to change your vantage point.
Head tracking mimics this and I guess it could also be combined with 3D glasses to combine both effects.
@(Unverified)
Thanks for clarifying with a very good example, and to point out the possibility to combine head tracking with 3D glasses I didn't think about that.
@(Unverified) I've actually done this in May 2008, it was cool, but I didn't have the headtracking perfectly calibrated. http://nixarn.infa.fi/index.php?id=home&startYear=2008&startMonth=5
@nixarn Wow cool!
Apple patent something it didnt invent, only to prevent others from using the tech?
Doesn't that make them a patent troll?
@LAY
yes it does, i was coming her to post the exact same thing. something needs to be done about this.
@LAY
Of course it does. I really hope this doesn't end up on Macs because we won't hear the end of it from Mac fanbois and how Apple "invented" head tracking. And then MS stole it from them.
@LAY No. Patent trolls sue, because that's how they make their money. Apple hasn't sued over this. Furthermore, patent trolls don't want to stop anyone from using their patented idea, they just want to get paid for it.
Second, patent trolls don't necessarily patent something someone else invented, they often do invent something themselves, it's just that it's really trivial.
So no, this isn't patent trolling.
@LAY
Are you really stupid enough to believe the patent office is going to grant a patent to Apple if somebody else has already patented it? Wait, don't answer that, I already know you are stupid enough to believe that.
If you had half a brain, you would realize that Apple is applying for a patent for something that HASN'T been patented yet. And where did this "only to prevent others from using it" BS come from? Instead of hyperbole, how about you show some proof of that? Or do you think Apple doesn't use and implement things it patents?
Wait, don't answer that either. You're stupid enough to believe that too.
@Jack
Settle down dude.
This is a patent application. Not a patent. Which actually means very little. Something around 50% of patent applications are approved. Which actually doesn't mean a great deal, either. Let's suppose that that this application passes the 3 general concepts that are applied on patents: 1) novelty, 2) non-obviousness, 3) "useful". A patent doesn't grant someone freedom-to-operate (i.e. is there a series of other patents that would be required in order to use this?), which is arguably the most important thing of all. Finally, whether people like it or not, "stopping other people from using it" is legal and virtually all companies will employ "defensive" IP.
Bottom line: if you had the money, you could go apply for a patent tomorrow and, in all likelihood, get a published application. This means virtually nothing.
@LAY
Troll don't have engineering dept. Apple does, so that makes it a whore (making up niche cases to make the general idea unique) as it hoarding patents. Any idea should be patented....
Trolls on the other hand create patents out of thin air or just buy them.
@Atkins
Apple is the bad guy...
illustration - big kid holds bottle but infant(apple) takes bottle and hits big kid(other company) with bottle and big kid gets disciplined for taking bottle away by parents who did not see the action
- maybe not so good an analogy
One more from the series of "Apple patents"...
It is ridiculous that this blog focuses mainly in patents from Apple. It's like... like... you are biased. Other companies also patent things and we never see it here...
And the line about the "fortunate" Steve Jobs comment will come back to haunt this site...
Not cool guys, not cool...
@Mr w00t
yeah, what a shame....something tells me Dell and their 'supply chain management' patents just don't get the clicks they used to.
I think every one needs to stop being pissy little B*#$%.
So Apple patented something again they do it so when people like us and other companies get wind of what they are doing it's not copied "helllllo".
Some of you may say "microsoft is doing NATEL" but thats not computer integration... that is for gaming.
and Engadget and other sites post Apple patents because there one company that puts products out like twice a year unlike pc's which are made by several people and come out all the time.
@Amnak
Wrong. Natal is coming to Windows.
@grammar
"Secondly, if you're asking them them if they're serious"
Funny when one correct another in an unnecessary manner and fails in the process.
Virtual reality with better graphics...
@grammar Actually, his use of the commas is correct. He's using it before a name of a person (or entity) being directly addressed.
See Rule 4: http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/commas.asp
I don't get it. I'm sure this is useful to some, but I don't get it.
@grammar
"correction fail"
Big time.
The example they showed is viewing 3D charts, presumably for a presentation. I honestly don't know how that will work in a video conference room with 20-30 people in it.
@ToniCipriani
This could be a technology blocking moving maybe until they figure out what they can use it for. Head tracking has been around for a while but hasn't been put to good use. It is a one user technology and that doesn't translate to mass marketability.
TAT has already done this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZY6iRYL7MQ
Yeah and I invented it in 1995 but the monitor also moved in response which made for an even more powerful "window"
personally if it lacks focus tracking I don't think much of it (natal included).
Patents are lame, we all think stuff up but patents don't reward thought or invention rather they reward having the money to afford a patent. Ideas have become a privelege not a right.
Well Jonnhy Lee was picked up by Microsoft to work on Natal so good for him. And its not Engadget doing the story people they copy and paste stuff all day.
Read the patent 1st! and also do not take away anything from the guy Apple and anyone will benefit what he showed people. Yea he didn't invent it but he made it a lot easier.