Even though AT&T's already committed both
carrier and backhaul upgrades in an effort to buck the butt-of-the-joke trend it's been experiencing for the last couple years, there's some evidence that it's a recent trend in the way phone radios operate -- not a lack of overall capacity -- that should shoulder at least some of the blame for the issues. An O2 staffer (O2 carries the iPhone and has coincidentally experienced many of the same growing pains AT&T has in recent months) that reached out to
Ars Technica says that Apple's baby was one of the first widely popular phones to immediately drop data connections as soon as transfers were complete and re-establish them only when needed; that tactic saves battery power, but can overwhelm cell sites pretty easily if they're not configured to handle it -- even if there's plenty of spectrum and backhaul available. Other handsets now employ the same strategy, compounding the problem. This seems like an awfully odd thing to miss during carrier testing, but who knows -- we wouldn't put it past anyone to gladhand the iPhone through the toughest parts of the gauntlet.
posted February 24th 2010 2:06PM
Someone really should have realised this...
@lookseehear - ;^)...
I feel vindicated in the court of geek-ic opinion. Don't want to say "I told you so" a couple of years ago but Boss you paying attention? AT&T and O2 have been "good partners" with Apple never point a finger despite being BASHED relentlessly in the press! Appreciate the what, what on this one CZ...
@lookseehear
The manufacturer that didn't realice this was apple. Samsunf, Nokia and SE handsets dont do this.
As for the fix, it might not be as simple as reconfiguring the network. The GSM system has several channels, and one of them is the control channel, working on different frequencies. This cutting and re-establishing the connection overwhelms the control channel. It isn't the prosessing capacity or some software clitch, but the limited bandwidth of the control channel. If the handset manufacturers continue to do this, there's no way to fix it, apart from huge increase in the basestatiions
"that tactic saves battery power, but can overwhelm cell sites pretty easily if they're not configured to handle it"
Then why not configure them to handle it? This contradicts the claim that the handsets are to blame.
@lookseehear well how come this hasn't happened Down Under? (and, mind you, our 3G infrastructure isn't that amazing)
AT&T suck. Period. Next!
@newone
The control channels capacity is not the problem in these cases. It's actually the signalling capacity of the RNC's from AT&T, which control the Base Stations. This doesn't happen everywhere because of different RNC models installed around the world. AT&T's RNCs don't manage properly the signalling load, and need either to be upgraded or replaced, depending on the vendors (I think it's Ericsson in most of the network). It's clear they don't want to invest in their network anymore, with no plans to launch HSPA+, they most probably will just fine tune everything else, that is cheaper.
@iKid
Grow up
@lookseehear
I think it's there fault for not noticing this problem from the beginning.. and why isn't any other carrier having this problem, if most of the latest smartphones are using this method to manage there 3g connection???
I think as an aside, they should also mention that poor antenna design (a la iphone) also burdens the tower quite a bit.
@victor Can you elaborate on that?
@victor
It's already been proven over and over and over again ad nauseum that the iPhone's antennas are not the problem. Stop using it as your scapegoat.
I had an O2 sticker on the box of my iPhone 3G,
when I peeled it off it said AT&T,
did anyone else in the UK get this?
@commenter7
friend of mine peeled his and it said 'loser get 3gs - from steve'
Isn't there a way to keep the data connection ON and constantly connected to the tower? (sacrificing a little battery life of course). I'm assuming it varies from phone to phone and may be impossible on some.
@Accidental
"A little battery life"?
I'm almost certain that all of the complaints about the iPhone 3GS's short battery life are due to people carelessly leaving a webpage still open and active in Safari (Safari doesn't "close" if there's a webpage open; it just runs in the background), thus keeping the data connection constantly alive. So it's not just a "little" battery life.
@magus21
When I had an iPhone, Safari would "forget" the web page it was on almost immediately after leaving. It was extremely annoying.
If they've fixed that, it's good to hear, but I wouldn't call people "careless" for wanting a web page to keep loading while they answer a call. I'd rather it happen in the background then have to come back and wait for it to finish loading when my call is over.
-Taylor
Well, you can't say ATT is launching this excuse. O2 took the lead.
@kjb434
Yes this is true, buts shouldn't AT&T realized this already after having it on their network for years? It seems to have only taken O2 a few months to realize there was a problem, test for what it is, and find the problem. Much better initiative i think.
@kjb434 you know if AT&T said this they would get ripped to shreds by everyone. this comment section would have a field day ripping into AT&T. i won't be surprised if i get downranked into oblivion for this but i really don't think AT&T is that bad. since i got a new phone my service has been much better and i can't tell you the last time i had a dropped call.
@snow4558
"Yes this is true, buts shouldn't AT&T realized this already after having it on their network for years"
AT&T probably knows, but doesn't want to make it public. It's easier to attract potential customers if they think that the "problem" of poor reception is caused simply by overloaded towers (which can be upgraded) rather than something that might be systemic.
It could also be that AT&T wants people to think there's only one major problem instead of two separate but equally major problems.
@kojo87 I agree. I've never had a bad experience with AT&T in the 10+ years I've been with them. My signal is always great (with the exception of some of the casinos in Vegas which block signal from all carriers) and I have only experienced a few dropped calls, most of which were because of the person on the other end. Sure, I don't have a smartphone right now, but even when I did, I never had any problems.
@snow4558 O2 have had iphone for almost as long as ATT
and mi dads 3G didnt have O2 sticker or ATT label either
I guess that blows AT&T's "the iPhone is too powerful" argument of 2008.
What about other carriers outside of the US and England...like Canada? From personal experience, I get 2 to 3 drop calls per night when I'm in the states, but when I travel to Canada and am on the Rogers network, I never get a dropped call. How do they explain that one?! I recognize the screen on the left in the banner pic- Mark the Spot! An app from ATT to report dropped calls. I like to put little messages in the "more info" box...nasty ones to ATT. I wonder if they read them.
@dhamson
I have never had a dropped call in my entire life here in Europe :)
@dhamson
What about other phones, besides the iPhone that don't drop calls all the time. I've used an HTC Pure on ATT for the last 4 months and never dropped a call, literally not one.
No matter how bad you want this to be all ATT's fault, it's not.
@(Unverified) I had a dropped call today on my phone here in Europe.
Coincidently, my battery died at the same time. Odd stuff here.
"...if they're not configured to handle it." So, are we to assume that all non-ATT and O2 customers are configured to handle this?
@steel
"So, are we to assume that all non-ATT and O2 customers are configured to handle this?"
What makes you think the other carriers wouldn't have similar issues? No other carrier has as many smartphones on their network as AT&T. There is just no comparison right now for the amount of data load AT&T has to bear.
@magus21
I'm referring to all of Europe, basically. Their population densities are much higher than ours and you don't hear the outcry from iPhone users over there.
@steel Well comparing Europe to the US is like Apples to oranges the infrastructure in Europe is way more developed and networks are betting tuned to mass usage. Plus the Iphone is not as popular over here as in the states
@steel
How about the fact that the towers only need to cover a small country. Not one that is 7 times the size of Britain...
Wow! This only took 2.5 years to realize. I guess it will take another 2 or so years to fix.
What's the hype about all the iphones? I have gotten tired of them. I can't wait for At&t to lose their exclusivity. Let the competing begin :D
I think the exclusivity is done now. If I were a competing carrier, I would avoid the iPhone at all costs. It puts a tremendous strain on the network, and Apple grabs up all the revenue with their walled-garden app store. The carrier gets cut out of the revenue stream, and the monthly fees don't cover the service the customers are using.
@CtrlBurn
Exactly, I mean the iphone looks cool but it's really no different than the
ipod touch. Just that it can make a call and play music "WOW". I am not trying to be a fan boy because personally I dont have a smartphone, I use a featurephone but I would not drop a penny on an iphone. Fanboys of any company are funny lol..
@CtrlBurn I spend maybe $3 per month on apps. I spend at least $180 per month on my AT&T contract. Poor AT&T indeed.
@CtrlBurn
You're not seriously defending carriers, are you? One of the greediest corporate entities out there, as a whole? Oh poor carriers, only making $80/month off iPhone owners. We should all feel so sorry for them.
Shut the hell up. The App store profits go to the developers, and then to Apple. Give me one reason why carriers deserve any money from the app store, if you can. You should be thanking Apple for breaking the cycle where the carriers were able to charge for you every single thing you did on your phone. Or do you not remember what it was like in 2007?
@Jack
If it were all peaches and cream to be a carrier, with dump truck loads of money being poured into your lap, like you seem to think it is, I think we'd see more competition.
@Jack: "... You should be thanking Apple for breaking the cycle where the carriers were able to charge for you [sic] every single thing you did on your phone. Or do you not remember what it was like in 2007?"
Gee, I remember 2004 when I could load any software I wanted onto my PalmOS Treo 650 and there wasn't a single thing AT&T could do about it. Windows Mobile users had the same ability. Ah, Johnny-come-latelys are so much fun.
I'm not knocking the App Store. It's been around only a quarter the time of Palm OS and has almost three times as many apps. Impresive.
@Abe I don't think so, because of barriers to entry. It isn't really cheap to set up those cell towers. There's a significant capital outlay before you can start doing business.
To everyone who says this took a long time to diagnose - keep in mind that this is only a problem in a few markets for AT&T (as far as I know). I live in DC, and aside from a few reception issues, I've never had issues with dropped calls in 2 years. The type of problem described by the anonymous O2 rep above sounds like it would only manifest in areas with extremely high concentrations of these devices per cell tower. I'm not familiar with device testing, but I would tend to doubt they tested hundreds of iPhones simultaneously - I'd guess that there were simulated devices used, or other 'stock' setups that didn't produce the conditions that we're seeing now.
This is most likely nonsense. The feature that they are talking about is called "Fast Dormancy" and it is not Apple which used it first, but it was RIM. Apple introduced it only recently. Probably someone mixed up some names (less likely) or was not as knowledgeable as they claimed (more likely).
@Bauer
no apple invented it and are going to applying for a patent in "automatically switching off data connection in capacitive multitouch mobile devices"
*sniff sniff* -- I smell a steaming pile of bull crap here.
MMM, smell that freshness.
This isn't really new news? Back when AT&T first had issues and then again immediately following the O2 release the were wide spread reports all over the internet saying that it was not the carriers but the phones (in this case mainly the iPhone) that were taking down the system by constantly requesting data over and over again instead of a steady stream.
You guys even posted about it but everyone passed on it as if it wasn't really true.
Can we remove the blame from AT&T and O2? Hell no. They should have seen this coming and better prepared, but it was caused by mainly the iPhone since it is so widely used and now others obviously.
That being said, the networks still need to fix this. I like saving battery power and if this method on the phones doesn't hinder performance I am all for it
Well, if this is going to be the way that modern smartphones will operate, then something needs to be done on the carrier's end to handle the constant toggling of data connections.
@ebgolfin no, the network was there first. the Government does not change their streets if a carmanufacturer decides to use a funny new tier design either :D
@dadings
So you are saying that the networks should be static in their approach?
If we assume that the facts of this article are true, that modern data hungry devices can save energy by terminating idle data connections, then the service providers should make an effort to make their systems compatible. What is the alternative? To remove this potentially power-saving feature from all future devices to make life easier for the service providers?
Question: But ATT's voice and data exist on different frequencies or something, right? The tendencies of the data connections shouldn't affect voice calls should it?
I've always heard that the 2 were separate, so that even the high data traffic brought on by the iPhone doesn't explain the problems with voice calls.