TiVo Premiere review

When we first heard rumors of new TiVo hardware back in April of 2009, our imaginations started racing. The current TiVo HD and HD XL have been the best DVRs on the market for their entire three-year run, and while they've received significant feature updates in that time, the overall experience of using a TiVo simply hasn't kept up with the explosion of online content and the revised viewing habits of consumers -- in fact, the interface has remained largely unchanged for nearly a decade. So while the actual TiVo hardware has actually gotten smaller and simpler, it's the software that's received a substantial makeover this time around -- it's migrated to Flash, and the main elements have been totally redesigned for HD displays and the invisible integration of online video services. Is it enough to keep TiVo afloat in a sea of cheap cableco DVRS? It is worth upgrading from an existing TiVo HD? There's only one way to find out -- read on for our full review.

Tivo Premiere unboxing and hands-on

Hardware and installation

Externally, the $299 TiVo Premiere we were sent for review isn't much to write home about. It's thinner and shorter than the HD, and the front face is almost completely black apart from the TiVo logo, power and record lights, and an output-format button. Around back there's a single CableCARD slot, cable and antenna RF inputs, two USB ports, an Ethernet jack, and an eSATA jack for external storage, as well as HDMI, component, and composite video outs. You still have to shell out for the USB WiFi adapter, which is unfortunate considering the Premiere's $299 price tag.

After TiVo's Jim Denney made an video appearance at the Intel Developer Forum last year, we were sort of hoping to see this new generation of TiVo hardware move to the hot new Atom CE4100, but no such luck -- the Premiere stays true to TiVo's roots with an embedded Broadcom SoC running Linux, although the main parts of the TiVo interface runs on Flash now. The updated interface comes with some increased system requirements -- which is why it won't run on Series3 boxes -- and the new hardware is much more powerful than before. It's actually a dual-core system, although TiVo's only using a single core at the moment due to stability issues. A update rolling out sometime in the very near future will enable the other core and hopefully speed up the interface, according to TiVo -- but more on that later. The system is Energy Star-certified and whisper-quiet; we never heard it make a sound.

We'll be blunt and say the revised remote is a bit of a disappointment. It's made out of a glossier plastic, and it feels extremely insubstantial in the hand. TiVo remotes have long set the standard for design and quality, but this one almost seems like TiVo KIRFed themselves -- although we're told the only real change is the plastic used. The $499 Premiere XL comes with an updated version of the Glo remote from the Series3, but what we really want is for the hot QWERTY slider remote to be packed in the box -- the interface is based on search now, and it needs a serious text input solution. Too bad: it'll run between $50 and $100 when it comes out later this year -- we're told the fall, but it could be sooner.

While TiVo's certainly made strides in the interface department, the out-of-the-box experience with the Premiere is still the same halting process as ever -- if you're a new owner, chances are you'll need a visit from the cable company to get all set up with a CableCARD and have it activated, and that's always fraught with peril. We can't blame TiVo for that, since so much depends on your cable company, but a little more hand-holding for new customers might have been nice -- setting up a new TiVo for the first time isn't exactly plug and play.

What's baffling to us is that there's no benefit to being an existing TiVo owner, at any level. You can't just swap boxes in place, for example -- the tip of the power connector has changed. More importantly, you'd also better be prepared to lose all your shows and recording preferences, since there's no backup or restore options here, and be ready to spend some time on the phone getting the cable company to re-pair your existing card to the new hardware, since it's not automatic -- most of our channels worked after we just stuck the card in and booted up, but premium channels were broken until Comcast activated our unit. TiVo tells us they'll put up some better information for existing TiVo owners online shortly, and there might eventually be some provisions for backing up Season Pass and WishList settings online in the future, but for now there's nothing.

Once you do get everything plugged in and set up, you still have to drill through something like 35 settings screens, and wait for channel data and software updates to load. (We still don't know why TiVo doesn't include programming the remote's power and volume buttons in the initial setup.) All in all, you're looking at an easy hour or more -- make sure you bring a book or something.

TiVo Premiere installation process

Software, interface, and service integration

TiVo's really hyping up the new Flash-based main interface of the Premiere, and for good reason: it's much sleeker than the decade-old TiVo UI we've come to know and love / hate, and offers far more search, discovery, and content integration options than ever before. The most prominent feature of the new UI is the "discovery bar," which intelligently populates based on what you're looking at -- it'll show you related new shows while you're looking at your recordings list, and featured content based on user trends and highlighted promotions on the main screen. You can also customize the discovery bar and pin shows to it, and you can tweak it so you get better recommendations.

TiVo Premiere interface gallery

TiVo says that the Premiere's interface "blurs the line between broadcast and broadband" by showing content from online service providers like Netflix, Amazon and Blockbuster right next to traditional broadcast content, and that's certainly reflected in the interface -- at least at the top level. The idea is that every content source is treated equally, so if you're searching for a show or movie you're presented with several ways to get it -- for some content that means you'll have your choice of recording it, streaming it from Netflix, renting it from Blockbuster, or buying it from Amazon. You can also switch services off selectively, so if you only want to see movies that stream from Netflix you can set that. It's a great idea, and when it works it's extremely convenient, but we saw things glitch out a few times -- searching for Californication showed icons for Netflix and Amazon on the results page, but no streaming options were displayed when we opened the listing, even though the show was in our Netflix queue. How content is listed also affects the results -- Netflix lists Food, Inc. as "Food, Inc. (2008)," so it wasn't combined with the main result for the movie. Getting all these little details right will be critical to making this system useful -- otherwise you might as well figure these things out manually. There are also lots of pre-sorted and curated categories in the Browse TV & Movies section, so it's easy to find romantic comedies, or only look at specific sports, or easily record all of the AFI Top 100 movies that come on. It's all very nice, but it's also extremely click-intensive, a feeling intensified by the overall lagginess of the system.

Let's talk about that lag for a moment, since it's inescapable: it feels like the entire UI reloads every time you do anything. The primary culprit is the context-sensitive discovery bar, which disappears and reloads entirely from screen-to-screen; it's annoying to the point of uselessness. TiVo says the Premiere doesn't cache images in memory in order to keep RAM usage down, but that doesn't make it any easier to deal with -- besides, RAM's cheap and this entire interface needs to be loaded up and ready to go at all times. Even the first-level menus load in slowly, and they're an entirely local affair -- there's no reason for the same six options under "Find TV, movies, and videos" to take a second to appear every time you select it. It gets worse when you actually try and use the new browse features; not only do the icons and content take measurable amounts of time to load in, the discovery bar reloads itself every time you drill down a level to present more context-sensitive info, so it really feels like the whole UI is blanking out with each click. TiVo says that enabling the second core in the future will speed everything up, since the backend is multithreaded and it'll be able to pull in all this data faster, but right now things are super slow, and it's a major hindrance to using the Premiere. You have to be patient enough to get to what you want, and that undoes the entire premise of tweaking the interface around content discovery -- you can't be spontaneous while you're constantly waiting for graphics to load.

Overall, though, the new UI is a dramatic step forward, and once it runs fast enough we'll have no desire to look back. Which is why it's so maddening that the old UI is still just a click away -- TiVo's only redone what it calls the "high traffic areas" of the interface like TiVo Central and My Shows, while the Settings and the Season Pass manager are still the old apps. The system hands off between the Flash-based UI and the older style are fast and mostly seamless, but this isn't nearly the whole-hog makeover you'd expect -- in fact, you can just turn off the new interface entirely and just use the old-style menus. TiVo says it's working to redo the entire interface over time, but for now the Premiere rather uncomfortably straddles two different worlds; the home screen might be futuristic and information-rich, but you still set Season Pass priorities using the same interface that debuted on the very first TiVo in 2001, and it still locks up the entire system while it resolves conflicts. That's unacceptable in 2010 -- let's hope TiVo moves it to the background when it enables the second core.

On demand, commercial skipping, and moving video around

The complete failure of tru2way means that TiVo simply can't support the vast majority of cable on demand services, so you should be ready to give those up if you decide to pick up a Premiere -- unless you're an RCN customer and you have undying faith in the promises of corporate executives. RCN customers will actually be able to get TiVo units directly from the company, and on demand content will simply show up in searches and listings just like Netflix or Amazon -- and the player interface should look similar to those services as well. RCN is scheduled to roll out TiVo support sometime this year, but there's no date -- given TiVo's checkered history with cable companies, we'll believe it when we see it.

TiVo DVRs have long featured a secret command that enables 30-second skip, but the Premiere does away with it -- instead, there's a 30-second "scan" that moves forward in about a second by default. It's not as quick as the skip, but it's effective, and we're sure it's keeping advertisers happy, so we'll accept it as a fine compromise between the functionality users want and the demands of content providers. We're also hoping there's another secret command to enable the skip somewhere, of course.

We're huge fans of iTiVo and Vuze, which enable you to get shows off your TiVo and put videos back on it, respectively, and they worked with only minor incident. iTiVo was actually just fine, but Vuze got a little confused as to where it was serving files and lost the connection at one point. We continue to wonder: why isn't this functionality enabled or supported by TiVo out of the box?

Wrap-up

It's been three years since the TiVo HD first arrived and just about a year and a half since TiVo first started beta testing this interface, and after using the Premiere for a day, here's what we want to know: what the hell has TiVo been doing all this time? The new UI is excellent, but it's only skin deep, lags like crazy, and accessing any deeper functionality requires a resolution switch and a fallback to the old interface. The major content partnerships have been in place for a year now, and the interfaces used to access them haven't been updated in any significant way beyond integrating the search results. There's still no support for cable video on demand -- it'll work on RCN eventually, but the rollout doesn't have a firm schedule yet and our experience waiting for Comcast TiVos doesn't exactly fill us with hope. The slider QWERTY remote that should have shipped in the box isn't ready yet and will require a Bluetooth dongle. There's no built-in WiFi. Multiroom viewing support is still extremely minimal, and there's no multiroom recording support at all. Nothing has changed as far as watching your TiVo from a PC, either on your local network or remotely, and there's no support for transcoding recorded shows to a mobile device automatically. Speaking of mobile devices, you know something's gone terribly wrong when both DirecTV and Comcast have robust iPhone apps for remote DVR scheduling and TiVo's got... nothing. We can go on -- hell, we could simply reprint our open letter to TiVo from last April, since the Premiere just barely addresses its main points.

TiVo tell us the Premiere as it stands right now is a total reboot of the company's foundation; that more powerful hardware combined with the extensible Flash platform and an interface that merges broadcast content with broadband will enable the company to attract a new breed of consumers in the years to come. That may be so, but it's what the company manages to build on that foundation that matters, and we'd recommend hanging back on buying a Premiere until the software has been revved a few times, or at least until you can buy the QWERTY remote -- that's going to change the experience more dramatically than anything, and if TiVo manages to enable that second core and speed things up while you wait, than so much the better.

Let's step back from specific product recommendations and think about the big picture for a second, though. TiVo has almost always defined itself as the shining alternative to garbage cable company DVRs, so much so that its customers willingly give up video on demand to use its more reliable and flexible recording interface. But TiVo's also historically been the only real alternative -- no other company has ever entered the mainstream DVR market with a great product at scale and at a competitive price, and that means TiVo's never had to really compete against anything except its own extremely popular products. That's a recipe for timid incremental change, which is exactly what the Premiere feels like -- TiVo says it's reinventing the DVR, but all it's really done from a consumer perspective is add some nice new (slow) menus to the TiVo HD. The problem is that moving at such a snail's pace has allowed the cable companies to catch up and consumers to move on; if cheap / free cableco DVRs were TiVo's greatest existential threat of the past decade, the combination of cheap / free / good cableco DVRs and the online-only content customer might be the fatal blow of this one. The Premiere is the DVR we wanted two years ago -- TiVo's challenge will be to make it the DVR we want two years from now.

[Special Agent Steve Posted Mar 24th 2010 10:01PM]

How ironic.... all the videos are not available.

[scoobydooby Posted Mar 24th 2010 10:53PM]

@Special Agent Steve - They are available now. And they show me zero reason to upgrade from my Series 3.

TiVo had all this time to make the ultimate killer DVR, and all they could come up with is a laggy flash based piece of crap.

I'm really disappointed, because there are not that many other options out there, but somehow I doubt the Premiere will put an end to people leaving TiVo.

[Special Agent Steve Posted Mar 24th 2010 10:57PM]

@scoobydooby
So am I. I was really hoping this could solve a lot of my issues with DVR as well. Honestly, how I see it, DVR's won't last very much longer unless they incorporate more companies/ features. Netflix solved a lot of problems through instant streaming.

[Itami Posted Mar 24th 2010 10:04PM]

There was a Hulu story right below this...

[iPad2010 Posted Mar 24th 2010 10:06PM]

Apple TV Is better.

[Nitesh Posted Mar 24th 2010 10:09PM]

@iPad2010
Thanks for the laugh.

[d889 Posted Mar 24th 2010 10:11PM]

@iPad2010
i loled

[ALBGunner04 Posted Mar 24th 2010 10:15PM]

@d889: I downrank'd

[Dale P Posted Mar 24th 2010 10:18PM]

@iPad2010 Clearly a troll, not even Apple like the Apple TV.

[Pacey Posted Mar 24th 2010 10:44PM]

@iPad2010

I'll bite on this one. We use an AppleTV in nearly every CI job we do now. Most of the time it's an iPod dock replacement as we've found that remembering where the heck your iPod is can be frustrating sometimes when you really just want to listen to something. There are some companies out there that provide 2-way IP drivers for the AppleTV that allow feedback to touch panels in automation systems.

I have an AppleTV at home and use it nearly every day. I would agree that Apple doesn't take the AppleTV very seriously. It should. With the iPad coming out and the iTouch/iPhone already already on the market, it would be the final pieve in the puzzle for Apple's media anywhere distribution system.

I love renting movies from it also, it's easier that Netflix imo, and definitely easier than trying to stream anything through my TiVo HD.

Honestly, if you slapped the music, movie and TV side from the AppleTV into a fully functioning (both cores, completly done HD menus, etc) TiVo Premier, it really could have been the 'one box to do it all'

Alas, TiVo fell way WAY short of this.

[connielocam Posted Mar 25th 2010 1:01AM]

@Nitesh I’m especially excited about the expanded Internet video capabilities. Been using this for 8 years now, although I'm hyped to see some youtube streaming in the future. Reactions: http://bit.ly/premiere-experience-tivo

[Mirri Posted Mar 25th 2010 3:09AM]

@iPad2010
go back under the bridge

[brian515 Posted Mar 24th 2010 10:15PM]

That's nice and all, but the subscription fees are killer. Sorry, but I think I'll stick with my Windows 7 home theater PC.

[MichaelF Posted Mar 24th 2010 10:48PM]

@brian515

The subscription fees are certainly an issue if you're used to using the free Windows MCE, but I think a majority of people use the rented DVRs from the cable companies, the monthly costs of which is usually equal to or greater than TiVo.

Comcast in NJ, for example, costs $15/month for DVR (DVR Service + Box Rental).

[jhoff80 Posted Mar 24th 2010 11:33PM]

@brian515 Not only that, the interface of Media Center is also superior in my opinion, and it can do everything that this new TiVo can do, and more (try displaying your pictures or listening to your music on the TiVo.)

[MeVirtually Posted Mar 24th 2010 11:38PM]

@brian515 I hear ya. I'm ready to ditch Tivo after nearly 7 years.

Technology has caught up Tivo, and for us long-time users, there's hardly any incentive to remain loyal. I prefer the recording quality I get from the cable card vs a tv tuner, which is why I've stayed this long (monthly fees vs costs of TV season DVDs have made the cost even out a bit) but now that the FCC has demanded TV providers come up with a new solution, I'm hoping to integrate it into a HTPC build to replace the Tivo, and then some.

[Jakejd Posted Mar 26th 2010 1:15PM]

@MichaelF

What? Are you under the impression that you can't stream MP3 and AAC to a Tivo, or that you can't view photos in HD on a Tivo? Because if you are, then you are misinformed. You can do both.

[MichaelF Posted Mar 26th 2010 11:31PM]

@Jakejd

I didn't mention anything about streaming anything. I compared the cost of renting a DVR from cableco and tivo subscription. Maybe you hit "reply" on the wrong post.

[inertone Posted Mar 24th 2010 10:17PM]

a video is repeated

[DTJ Posted Mar 24th 2010 10:24PM]

Good lord, that's laggy... come on Tivo, you had so long to get this right. It really feels as laggy as Tivo Search on my S3 box. I don't buy the "it'll be faster when we activate the second core" bit... it should work now, or they shouldn't have released it yet.

[Crazy J Posted Mar 25th 2010 10:51AM]

@DTJ
I think instead of using the time to concentrate on improving the UI, they spent the bulk of their time suing companies for patent infringement...

I'm still on my single tuner series 2 with lifetime sub. I was hoping to be able to upgrade to this, but I'll pass.

Modern Family, that show is freakin hilarious...

[arkweld Posted Mar 24th 2010 10:25PM]

I was wondering why TiVo never issued any screens of the guide when they announced this.

Now we know.

It's ridiculous they've left half of the interface unfinished. For the amount of hype this had ("reinventing the DVR") the UI should have been 100% complete across the entire system. Bugs are obviously inevitable but to just not even bother ...

that's pathetic.

[DTJ Posted Mar 24th 2010 10:29PM]

If this "is a total reboot of the company's foundation", then they need to fire the contractor and get a whole new team out to the site. What an embarrassment; I don't see how I can continue to recommend TiVos to people when cable co DVRs are getting better all the time. They aren't quite as good as Tivos, but they're good enough for most people, and the lack of VOD support is the nail in the coffin.

[zerotwone Posted Mar 24th 2010 10:30PM]

Disappointing to say the least. It seems like they didn't have enough time to complete the interface so they patched in elements from their old systems. I could only imagine that the constant loading of menus would over time become irritating.

[sputnik Posted Mar 24th 2010 10:47PM]

That interface is absolutely hideous, slow, and frankly pathetic.

[NaJaKwa Posted Mar 24th 2010 10:47PM]

Mossberg can suck it.

[BearCobra Posted Mar 25th 2010 2:08AM]

@NaJaKwa
Seriously. It sucks cause we suffer and end up with less Editor interaction when they have to rush the post.

[Adam Miarka Posted Mar 24th 2010 10:54PM]

Nilay, can you comment on the transfer speed to your computer? Has this increased at all with the new hardware?

[brennok Posted Mar 25th 2010 12:17AM]

@Adam Miarka
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7843611#post7843611

[OverZealous Posted Mar 24th 2010 11:01PM]

I'm sure I'll get knocked down for this, but maybe if TiVo spent more time building a box that doesn't suck, and less time suing other companies over obvious patents, they would have a box that can show a single page of the guide in less than two seconds.

I thought the interface looked bad on the preview Engadget had before. This is just so much worse than I had imagined.

Also, I think it looks dated as all heck. Just about every media center out there (Plex, XBMC, Boxee, *Windows* Media Center) has a better looking interface.

Full disclosure: I don't like TiVos, I have *never* liked TiVos.

[AnthonyF Posted Mar 24th 2010 11:59PM]

@OverZealous

I wouldn't go as far as to say its only obvious in hindsight, but if you take the time to go read what Echostar/DISH did (short version: worked with TiVo engineers, got a TiVo engineering unit, reverse engineered it, "lost" it, then came out with their own linux-based PVRs) then it seems TiVo is entirely justified suing E*. Basically, E* stole their research and development money. Its entirely justified that E* should be prohibited from selling their current and any other PVR technology that is based on the technology they stole from TiVo. Its ill-gotten gains, and E* needs to be punished for stealing.

[jedi Posted Mar 25th 2010 9:29AM]

@AnthonyF

No. Someone at Echostar with an actual computing science degree probably got wind of the whole thing and probably realized that they didn't need Tivo Corp as they could replicate their work cleanroom style with a bunch of undergraduates.

That's what "obvious" means: not dissecting the patent and then replicating it.

[jpsoraire Posted Mar 24th 2010 11:06PM]

Hey man, great review :). Thanks for the post. I was looking for a review about the new Tivos. Thanks again

[TGrant Posted Mar 24th 2010 11:10PM]

Great review, still not convinced that I NEED a Tivo. I need a TIVO/AppleTV/SlingBox All In One.

[mutex Posted Mar 24th 2010 11:12PM]

I don't understand why anyone would buy this, then pay for cable and pay for tivo subscription fees every month, when there are FREE alternatives (mce,etc). When you rent a box, you don't pay for it.

[MacBandit Posted Mar 24th 2010 11:42PM]

@mutex

My monthly Tivo bill is $8. My Crapcastic DVR was $12/month. Yes I had to buy the hardware up front but it was worth it.

[(Unverified) Posted Mar 24th 2010 11:29PM]

It's not any more expensive than a cableco DVR over it's 48 month amortization period, but I still hate TiVo because they sued Echostar, and the reality is that cable in most areas just plain sucks. Dish, DirecTV, and U-Verse are a lot better. The only place I can see for this is on Fios. Also, this is nothing new, its just another version of the same thing. There is no coordination for a unified NPL and no coordinated scheduling.

Complaining about not including wifi? Seriously Engadget? Anyone who owns their house and is serious about their network has already run Cat-5e or above cable to their home theater. Wired ethernet is better than wireless. Period.

[arkweld Posted Mar 24th 2010 11:50PM]

@(Unverified)

"Wired ethernet is better than wireless. Period."

You don't say.

The obvious technical differences aside. The lack of WiFi in any modern electronics device that supports streaming is a minus. Regardless of how well it performs. Would you be okay with a laptop that didn't have built-in wireless just because it had ethernet jack?

When you can buy Blu-ray players that support video streaming via wireless and even AVRs have it now, the fact that a device touted as being an internet and television box is a major oversight.

[drinkyc Posted Mar 25th 2010 3:31AM]

@arkweld Laptops are mobile. Mobile devices need Wifi, stationary devices should be wired if at all possible for speed and reliability. Unless the Tivo is being used OTA only, the user likely has their cable router right next to it anyways.

[(Unverified) Posted Mar 25th 2010 9:39AM]

@drinkyc Yeah, that's a good point. I know a lot of people tend to do that, and then "backfeed" into their Ethernet wiring (although its switched, so its really not a backfeed). Personally, I just have everything in the basement, and Ethernet going out from there. I really need a patch panel though. :)

[kreg37 Posted Mar 25th 2010 8:49PM]

@Unverified User

Are you kidding? People who live in apartments and don't want/can't tear up the building should not be streaming? Wired is better, but it's not always practicle. Period.

[(Unverified) Posted Mar 25th 2010 9:09PM]

@kreg37 No, I didn't say people who can't run Ethernet shouldn't use a streaming device. The first option that should be explored is Ethernet under area rugs and around baseboards and the like.

If that's not practicable, then alternative wired technologies like MoCA, HPNA, HomeplugTurbo and the like should be used. After that, if those technologies don't pan out for whatever reason, wireless is an option. But among all of that, users who own their home and can drop Cat-5e cabling or those who would be better served by alternative wired technologies shouldn't have to pay for a wireless adapter for the 1% who need it.

Another part of the problem is that there is so much buzz about wireless as opposed to alternative wireline technologies that people think it's appropriate for stationary devices, where it really isn't unless there are power line or coax issues that prevent the use of those technologies.

Plus, many of the users of this device own their own house anyways, which brings me back to the original point.

[LoPan12 Posted Mar 27th 2010 11:18AM]

@(Unverified) "Plus, many of the users of this device own their own house anyways, which brings me back to the original point." What brings you to that conclusion? And the TV is NOT the most likely place to put a router. If someone has a desktop, the router may very easily be placed in the computer, which is probably not in the TV room.

[(Unverified) Posted Mar 27th 2010 12:38PM]

@LoPan12 You apparently missed my point.

A lot of people in this country do own their own homes. Thus, the most logical thing to do is place the router and networking gear in the garage or basement and run CAT-5e from there to computers and HDTVs. That's what I have at home. If we need to add a device, we get out the 1000' box of CAT-5e and start dropping cable.

Another option that I know is fairly common is to run CAT-5 to each room, and then put a Level 2 switch at the home-run point, and then plug the router in any old place, and the rest of the network has internet access through that port on the main switch. It's electrically the same, except that the link between the internet router and network core switch is longer. Thus, it wouldn't matter if the router is with a desktop, or the TV, although in many cases the TV is where it goes, because that's where the coax is. I know someone who did it this way because his switch is in a basement that is only accessible from the outside, so he didn't want to have to go outside to hard reset the router.

For those who live in an apartment or whatnot, they should use Ethernet under the carpet if possible, and then MoCA or HomeplugAV as a second choice. Notice how virtually no users of this device have a legitimate need for wifi? Thus, the 95% of people who don't have a legitimate need for wifi shouldn't have to pay for it so that the ohter 5% don't have to plug a USB adapter in. The USB adapters are cheaply and easily available in any case, for when wireless is the only option.

[spin cycle Posted Mar 24th 2010 11:42PM]

$50 to $100 additional for a remote? Who are they kidding?

[jctx Posted Mar 24th 2010 11:50PM]

So do you still need the bluetooth dongle on the premier boxes? If they know the remote is coming out why not build it in...

[Mouretsu Posted Mar 24th 2010 11:54PM]

The article says that "no other company has ever entered the mainstream DVR market with a great product at scale and at a competitive price" however this isn't true. I had one of the original ReplayTV boxes and it was tons better than TiVo. It had Cat5 networking and a standard phone line while TiVo started with just a phone jack. ReplayTV had true commercial skip where it automatically jumped completely past the commercials not just the lame 30 second skip of current DVRs. ReplayTV didn't have a subscription fee, just buy the box and it worked with series recording and it had a 14-day guide. It STARTED with multi-room viewing and recording and nationwide program sharing with other ReplayTV boxes. It STARTED with internet scheduling.

It basically started with what TiVo took years to get and some of what TiVo still doesn't have. The only reason the boxes didn't stick around was they got sued to the point of destroying the business. I don't recall what conglomeration attacked them but they actually lost the suit about the commercial skip feature and they had to remove that feature from future boxes. Unfortunately they didn't have a future after the court case.

The networking feature was another reason they were sued. The networking feature not only allowed you to share recordings with other boxes in the house, you could share recordings with ANYONE in the country. Cable internet was much slower back then so the downloading wasn't optimal for sharing an episode of "Friends" from Los Angeles to New York but the point is that it had the ability to do it.

I wouldn't be surprised if TiVo was behind the law suite that crippled ReplayTV and took a much superior product off the shelves.

[robby818 Posted Mar 25th 2010 1:47AM]

@Mouretsu

and the image quality on the replays was better than tivos. tivo compression is awful and severely degrades the picture. replay had much better compression across all settings.

ReplayTV was really an amazing product. I am still using my two lifetime devices and love them to this day. I am still amazed at how well they work. Very zippy interface and easy networking.

The only downsides are a crippled ethernet port, the component output produces a dark picture, and the progressive setting slows down the UI too much.

I tried a TivoHD a year ago but the UI was so frickin slow that I returned it. Yes, Tivo looks user friendly but in reality it's cumbersome. Replay has a simple, logical interface while not as pretty as Tivo works much much better.

[scyber Posted Mar 25th 2010 11:09AM]

@Mouretsu

The statement is true, sort of. ReplayTV's were priced much higher than Tivos. So they didn't have a "competitive price" with the Tivo. Now technically a TiVo + lifetime service was roughly equivalent to the price of a ReplayTV, but when sitting on a store shelf, the average consumer would not see them as competitive. Heck Replay itself switched to TiVo's pricing model at one point during its lifespan (and then switched back less than a year later, IIRC).

I was a huge ReplayTV fan. I owned 7 ReplayTVs over the years (3 of the 3k series/Showstoppers and 4 of the 5k series). I'm switched over to TiVo now for HD recording, but the wife still complains about the lack of Automatic Commerical Skip.

And while the press always refers to the lawsuit as the downfall of ReplayTV, it was more like the last nail in the coffin. In reality the downfall of Replay can be traced to the collapse of the IPO market in 2000. Replay was supposed to IPO in late 2000, but they didn't b/c of the bubble bursting. This didn't give Replay the cash infusion it needed to survive on its own (like Tivo got in its '99 IPO), so I had to be bought out. And the company that bought, SonicBlue, was in alot of debt to begin with. They spent alot of money acquiring Replay & Diamond Multimedia (for their Rio MP3 players). The lawsuit wound up cutting into the Replay money and the release of the iPod pretty much destroyed the sales of the Rio brand MP3 players. SB gambled on Replay and Rio being the future if digital media and neither one paid off. SB declared bankruptcy and sold off Replay to Denon/Marantz. D&M removed the lawsuit inducing features, but by that time TiVo was ahead in name recognition and by that time the cable companies were soon to be releasing their own DVR.

[AnthonyF Posted Mar 25th 2010 12:06AM]

The TiVo Premiere scorecard.

New UI: +25
* Only skin deep: -10

Dual Core CPU: +30
* Software developers cant get multithreading right: -20

No integrated WiFi: -10
No integrated Bluetooth: -5
Doesn't come with slider QWERTY remote even though its so heavily geared towards searching using an on-screen keyboard: -20
No DLNA (so I can stream movies from my computer without having to copy and wait for the full program onto the TiVo): -10

Oh you get where I'm going. Its a huge negative score.

Tivo is a perfect example of great ideas and poor execution. Maybe then can take the $300M they're going to get from Echostar and finally hire some engineers (or pay their existing ones more) to produce a unit that is worthy of the TiVo name. They talked a big game of being "the one box" you need for all your media. Well I'll still need a Boxee Box or some other device for DLNA content, Hulu, etc.