Apple, Dell, and HP comment on suicides as Foxconn CEO shows off the pool
By Thomas Ricker 
posted May 26th 2010 6:43AM
posted May 26th 2010 6:43AM
As you probably know, Foxconn is behind the assembly of many major consumer electronics brands including HP, Nokia, Dell, and Apple -- the latter two have come out with statements expressing their respective concern. Apple had this to say:
And Dell this:"We are saddened and upset by the recent suicides at Foxconn. We're in direct contact with Foxconn senior management and we believe they are taking this matter very seriously. A team from Apple is independently evaluating the steps they are taking to address these tragic events and we will continue our ongoing inspections of the facilities where our products are made."
During today's press event, Tang Wenying, a young Foxconn line supervisor said, "This is a good place to work because they treat us better than many (other) Chinese factories." And that may be the most worrisome aspect of this: Foxconn, by all accounts, provides some of the best conditions for the Chinese workers it employs. What does that say about the anonymous (and thus, invisible) chain of small suppliers and secondary assembly facilities nobody reads about?"We expect our suppliers to employ the same high standards we do in our own facilities. We enforce these standards through a variety of tools, including the Electronics Industry code of conduct, business reviews with suppliers, self-assessments and audits."
Update: HP says that it is also investigating "the Foxconn practices that may be associated with these tragic events."
This truly saddens me to hear that the demand for cheap goods is driving some poor people to commit murder.
@Mike Vick exactly.. i think big IT firms are the ones pushing companies like foxconn to make their products more cheaper, foxconn has no other option to pay less and make more. i think companies looking for larger profits is to blame
@Mike Vick
Murder you say??? It was the CEO, in the pool, with a candlestick!!!
@Mike Vick
*suicide
@npstr
Big companies to blame? Give me a break. If we all just refused to buy underpriced, poorly made, products from China, but instead paid top dollar for North American/European made goods, we wouldn't have this problem. BUT, you might say, they don't make these great things in North America at all! Quite right, because we've let this cheap products gravy train run for too long.
And we're all to blame, including myself.
@PhantomPower ppl are paying top dollar for Apple products, its not their fault that Apple wants biger profint and so moveing its production to countries like China
@PhantomPower yeah true... but then we are still paying top dollar for goods made in china at much cheaper rate. we know that the iphone(cause of apple ref here no hatred to apple) costs way less (180$) than an unlocked version which is predicted to be around 650$. we are still paying 650$ not like 400$ or even 300$ (top dollar) for it. yeah consumer demand makes companies slash prices but then while slashing prices they only consider their profits first...
@Zucker ilold
@Mike Vick World Health Organization says suicide rate in China is about 14 per 100,000 people a year. Using this stats the 400k factory alone should have about 56 suicides. Mind you Foxconn has more factories, they have more than 700k employees. So it seems they are doing much better than the rest of China.
@Mike Vick Awesome how they have 400,000 workers and only two people (probably executives) have enough time to go for a swim and they make out like it's a good situation.
I'd say this problem goes beyond harsh treatment and suggest that overpopulation is the biggest cause of this.
When you have a high density of people and they all need jobs then salaries have to go down to accommodate them all and people will sign up because they need the work.
What solutions are there to overpopulation other than mass relocation, suicide, genocide, forced abortion, sterilization? The only humane way is prevention rather than cure but it's too late for that now.
@Mike Vick, Vote with your wallet. Don't by products made in China.
@TinWard
I think this is being blown out of proportion. As has been said they have a far lower suicide rate than average (far far lower) which suggests that their workers are looked after better than most in China. Also to suggest that low prices mean low wages is over simplifying things quite a bit. There are many other things to take into account like cost of living (ie to us the wages may be low but then we have a far higher cost of living. So if the Chinese workers earned what we earn then they would be relatively far better off than us) Then there is the fact that their Execs may not be taking home as much as western execs would as a percentage of the profit. It is for instance not uncommon for Western execs to take home 20, 30 or even 40+ times the salary of normal workers but in Japan I think the average is more like 11 (so perhaps China is even lower). Also doing business in china is a lot cheaper so Foxconn probably pay less for land, electric, water, tax etc etc and can therefore make more and still charge less.
The fact that only 2 people are swimming may be to do with the time of day or it could be that to make it look neater they only wanted a couple swimming at the time the cameras were there. Or perhaps the number of people that can swim is very low among the Chinese working class.
I may be wrong and they could be treating their workers badly, but it is wrong to simply assume this from a few suicides and some photos of a pool.
@nk, did the gave that other companies are mentioned in the article multiple times escape you, or are you just hellbent on blaming Apple?
@Mike Vick
Suicide is a very serious thing. I've lost friends and family that way. I'm glad to see that people are finally paying attention to the issue, but demonizing Foxconn or blaming the electronics industry and leaving it at that is insufficient.
There are 16 states in the US that have suicide rates at least as high as that of China as a whole (according to World Health Organization data from 2005). To put this in perspective, there have been 9 suicide related deaths in the past year at Foxconn's factory of 400,000 workers. That gives is it a suicide rate of 2.25 per 100,000. That's an 84% reduction in suicide compared to the nation as a whole.
The population of the state of Montana is only slightly higher than the entire global employee count of Foxconn. In 2005 the suicide rate in Montana was 22 per 100,000. That's nearly 10 times the current suicide rate of Foxconn (counting only the 400,000 at the factory in the article) and 57% higher than China as a whole and I don't remember seeing one report about it. New Jersey had the lowest suicide rate of 6.1 per 100,000, 2.7 times the rate of Foxconn.
I'm not trying to make any judgement or defense of the working conditions at Foxconn. What I am saying is that this problem is real and it's local. There are likely just as many (if not more) people dying this way in your community as there are at this factory.
@coolblue2000 The thing is, whilst China has a high suicide rate, the workers at Foxconn are the lucky ones who have found a decent job in the city, whereas the numbers for China as a whole include those stuck in a dead end in some poor village or urban ghetto.
It's too soon to condemn Foxcoon but I think there is a serious issues to be investigated here.
@thebosco
I should follow up by saying that it is important to care about the Foxconn workers and I'm really glad that people are concerned. My point was that it's not just THEIR problem. WE as Americans, as westerners, as citizens of "first" world countries, as human beings have this problem. Most of us are unable to influence the quality of life or treat mental illness at a factory in China. But, we can do it at home.
The number of suicides at Foxconn are within the statistics for the number of suicides within the population of China, which is 15 per 100,000 per year.
There have been 9 suicides at Foxconn over this past year, which employs 300,000 workers.
Foxconn employs a lot of people, at very good wages, allowing many rural Chinese families to gain a financial foothold. Foxconn has Olympic size pools and free condominiums for their workers to live in! That's a better deal than I get!
@PhantomPower
You don't need to blame yourself. Without your purchase power, my compatriots will mostly be unemployed and unhappy with a suicide rate probably 100 times higher. Thank you so much for saving our lives.
BTW, the per 100,000 rate in the US is above 10.... (male 17.7, female 4.5); 24.4 for Japan and 21.9 for S. Korea, data from wikipedia
@PhantomPower I agree but find me a computer/computer parts manufacturer that doesn't come from Asia. Look I do my best to buy products from Canada and the US. If those options don't exist then I look to the next best thing; goods that are made in countries where people are paid a decent wage and have a reasonable standard of living. That's almost becoming an impossibility. I live in Canada; more specifically the province of Ontario and manufacturing is all but dead here. Where do we turn?
@Mike Vick "We expect our suppliers to employ the same high standards we do in our own facilities." BS!!
@SSD
impossible, period.
@PhantomPower
I must agree about that blame part as I type this on my brand new Macbook Pro while listening to music on my iPad.
@Mike Vick This is a journalistic numeracy problem. It appears that the rate is lower than in China as a whole, but the number is apparently shocking - when it shouldn't be.
@Tammacho
Exactly. I did some number crunching. According to Wikipedia, in 1999 the suicide rate in China was 14 suicides per 100 000 people per year. The Foxconn factory has 800 000 workers. At the -99 rate, the Foxconn factory workers should commit 112 suicides this year. In five months there has been 11 suicides. At the -99 rate, they should have committed 47 suicides in five months. So they are actually committing four times less suicides than the average Chinese people.
So, instead of saying "You are extorting your workers and causing them to commit suicides!" the media should be saying "Well done! You have have a 75% lower suicide rate amongst your workers than the average Chinese have!
@SSD
so your idea of helping these people to get a more decent job is to stop buying their products.
thus getting them out of their jobs
hmm! not about about your rationale here.
@Mike Vick
"...the demand for cheap goods is driving some poor people to commit murder. "
I'd say to curb the murder rate, Obama should ban all cheap goods and limit retail chains to just Saks, Nordstrom, and Needless Markup.
@ElBandido
Why do people keep throwing out the WHO numbers to try to minimize the damage? Those numbers are not apples to apples since it isn't workplace focused. I looked up workplace suicide in the US:
251 workplace suicides in 2008 (a peak year)
[www.bls.gov]
137 million, nonfarm payroll employment in 2008
[www.bls.gov]
Works out to
0.000183% rate
or 0.0183 out of 100k people
Even assuming 11/800k (their total workforce of the company in China, rather than just at the facility, which is about 300-400k).
0.001375% rate
or 1.375 per 100k
Obviously it is much higher for Foxconn (and the workplace numbers I have do include some work-related suicides that occurred outside the workplace). Some better data would be if there are suicide rates for other factories (hopefully with the same sample size) or of other companies. I would be willing to bet that it isn't as high as Foxconn, esp when you look at other countries. The problem may not be the living conditions but may be copycat or other psychological reasons, but first we have to acknowledge that it is a problem.
@Kepe what, 'congratulations, you only managed to make 11 of your employees top themselves!'
this is an appalling frame of mind, you know what the level should be? 0%
id like to see how many of their executives have killed themselves, in fact, how many of any countries executives and above have killed themselves, cos im guessing its below 1%, you know why? money, now if they paid their workers a bit more and took some of their bundles of cash to pay for better conditions, then maybe that suicide rate could be 0% in fact i bet it would be, but heck, we all know that they think theres no problem with 'ONLY 11 people killing themselves' so they wont do this...
Would to see those comparisons of states vs foxconn suicide rates when only comparing the age group of workers in this factory. These are people in the prime of their lifestyle, not old people suffering or degenerate gamblers/debtors, committing suicide. I think you would find the rate much higher when compared with equivalent age subset in other areas of the world.
@Mike Vick Look at the bright side, a new website will be created. Endgadget.
@Mike Vick No one said the suicides are due to the working conditions. Where are the notes? And they seem to have a lower suicide rate than China as a whole so I fail to see the problem. They should be lauded for their lower than average rate.
@Kaibelf sorry I havent seen any Apple laptops for under 1k$ but yea, they are guilty as well
@SSD
LOL dont buy products from china?? what are you going to do then? pull products out from ur ass?
@SSD
LOL dont buy products from china?? where are you gunna get products from then? out of ur as* ??
@npstr In finance, you are taught that maximizing firm value for shareholder's is the number one priority for a firm.
Do we therefore blame the shareholders? If not blame, should we pressure them to care more about factories like Foxconn?
The whole problem i think is cause workers are not getting paid as much as they are working. it might not be a sweat shop, but whats the point if you work all day and earn less than 20$?
@npstr
Who really cares? It's another country and it's their problem. If they're dumb enough to work for free, then that makes things much better for us. Makes our electronics cheaper to buy.
@cardfan I smell a downrank
@cardfan isn't this the same problem as the rich getting richer and poorer getting poorer? so we enjoy at the cost of somebody else's misfortunes?
@nk
Probably so.
@npstr You need to apply relativity; what are their alternatives?
@npstr You have to put their salary in perspective with their economy, the socioeconomic factors that affect daily life, cost of living, etc. You cannot simply compare their salaries to those of others in countries such as the US. That is Economics 101 folks...
@tonylukes3 you are right... but the salaries they are getting are still less. salaries are not increasing at the rate at which fuel prices or living prices are increasing (i am talking of china here) they are increasing just about much for a lifestyle i dont think even a good. just enough to get the daily meals. but at the cost of what? ppl are cramped in living quarters to accommodate more workers. extra hours for which they are not getting paid, unimaginable deadlines that need extra work hours with less sleep. so they maybe better off with better salaries than ppl but they are still suffering..
@npstr
Actually, Foxconn gives more than competitive wages for the job the workers perform, and UNLIKE most manufacturing jobs in China it gives its employees overtime pay. They also pay for their worker's housing and have built an entire miniature city around the plant for their worker's convenience.
@cardfan
I hate it when people don't understand other peoples needs for money...
@npstr I believe the workers pretty much live for free onsite in dorms, and they save most of their wage to send back to their families in the countryside. From what I know those families are living way more comfortably than families without a member working as a migrant worker. The Foxconn workers' wages, although low by western standards, enable the workers' families to build new houses, buying motorcycles, TVs, DVDs, cellphones, healthcare, and sometimes even paying for their sibling's college education.
@PanchoVanilla
If it makes you feel better, then go ahead and feel guilty or bad about their plight. Meanwhile, we'll all continue to purchase goods made in China (but designed here) and other places where the labor situation is similar.
See ya in line next month! It's like sponsoring a child overseas..maybe they should include a pic of one of those sweatshop workers with every iphone? It's uplifting to know we're helping those people out by providing those essential jobs.
I personally think that a lot of this labor should be done in the United States. Honestly a pair of Jordans (standard hood wear) cost like $180 but only like $5 to make. I thought comparative advantage would result in lower costs for us? Am I missing something? How hard is it to produce goods in this country???
@Mike Vick who wouldnt want a profit of about 150$ and than have to reduce that to 50$ if the same was manufactured here.
@Mike Vick
It would be easy...if the average American would accept the same pay as a third world factory worker takes home...you'd also have to give up and cushy pension you were hoping your employer would contribute to...no healthcare...lower standards in safety. Basically give up on anything the manufacturer would have to pay for to legally operate in the United States. THEN and only then will such manufacturing move back to the western world.