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kris

All those things you hated about the Xbox One? Might be gone now.

Microsoft is updating their Q&A as we speak, but based on reports from GiantBomb and WhatHiFi, it looks like they've gone back on most of the policies they had planned for the Xbox One, namely:
  • No more always-online requirement
  • No mandatory check-ins every 24 hours
  • Authentication will no longer be needed for game discs
  • You'll only need Internet when setting up the console
  • No restrictions on loaning or renting games
  • No more region locks
So basically, they're now matching PS4 shot-for-shot here, and last week's "wicked burn" may no longer have the same sting.

If this all turns out to be true.

If it is, and Microsoft does reverse on these rather controversial policies, does that change your buying decisions? If you decided on a PS4 because of these restrictive policies, would you consider going back to Microsoft? Were you waiting for these changes? Or has your buying decision just become a lot harder?

EDIT: It's true: news.xbox.com­/2013­/06­/update

www.whathifi.com­/news­/microsoft­-to­-back­-track­-on­-x...
www.giantbomb.com­/articles­/microsoft­-to­-pull­-compl...
kotaku.com­/microsoft­-is­-removing­-xbox­-one­-drm­-5143...
www.polygon.com­/2013­/6­/19­/4446060­/xbox­-one­-drm­-use...
www.joystiq.com­/2013­/06­/19­/xbox­-one­-80­-microsoft­-r...

EDIT: Some features are being removed kotaku.com­/surprise­-xbox­-one­-drm­-reversal­-requires...

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73 replies
TgD

This will blow over in time. If people can forgive Sony for removing the "Other OS" AND PS2 backwards compatibility from the PS3, both of which they HAD delivered at launch then ripped from the hands of gamers, I am sure people can forgive Microsoft for a bad idea they never delivered

I am not sure how I feel about it. I wasn't completely offended by the old system, and i wanted to install my games on a hard drive and never put in a disc again. But now we are still tied to disks. This also means we are not likely to see steam-level digital sales.
5 like dislike
kris

Well, not on AAA disc-based games, but maybe indie games?
0 like dislike
TgD

Hope so!
0 like dislike
frankspin

"This will blow over in time."

You know, I kind of wish they waited it out to see what would happen. I think at the end of the day the core market they get sales from weren't going to care.
0 like dislike
TgD

Everything blows over.

Remember when PSN got hacked and our information was stolen? Hell I just snail mailed in the legal forms for my settlement 2 months ago.

www.joystiq.com­/2013­/04­/19­/psn­-class­-action­-settle...

A LOT of people claimed to swear off Sony and never trust them again after 2011. How many of those people do you think were calling the PS4 the only acceptable console to get? Companies will make mistakes, hopefully learn from them, and continue to make better products in light of them.

The technology market is fast and vicious but also wonderful. As long as you can bounce back from a failure, like a PSP-GO, and make something better, like a PS-Vita, you have a chance at survival.

Just food for thought
3 like dislike
Kenshin217

The PSP-Go was the true successor to Betamax. ;)
2 like dislike
Lerianis

That was different. That wasn't Sony's fault, that was the fault of a malicious hacker and even with the BEST security you can think of, there is always someone out there smarter than you who can find the security holes you didn't think of.
-1 like dislike
Xontic

Of course it was partially their fault. The hackers weren't just up, let's screw over Sony. Sony had reneged on the Other OS idea which was stated as a part of the console, and the hackers told them to keep Other OS. Sony refused to budge and the hackers went through with the hacking plans they told Sony they would do. It's like 2 wrongs don't make a right, but Sony was far from just a bystander being picked on.
0 like dislike
Lerianis

I personally feel that the 'core market' would have cared a whole damned lot when they couldn't share thing with their friends and family without jumping through a bunch of hoops.

The bottom line is that they HAVE to stop with this bunkus and bullplop that we are 'just buying a license'. No, I am buying a game which I should have the right to sell to my friends, to a store, etc.

Even licenses like for Windows 7 and 8 should be able to be resold without jumping through a bunch of hoops, even the SLM versions.

To TgD, there is absolutely NO reason why we cannot have digital distribution with this now. None. You do NOT have to lock these things to a system or an account or do anything else. You just have to verify (by someone logging into their account) that they have the right to download X game in question.

There is absolutely no reason why Steam-esque game downloading could not come to the XBox One, stringent DRM is NOT a requirement for that as Steam themselves proved.
-1 like dislike
punkJD

Man, with the DRM you could share your things with up to 10 people and resold your physical and digital Games (once i think). And the digital distribution is still gonna happen, what you won't have anymore is the possibility to see your physical installed Games on other consoles, you won't be possible to share your account things with anyone and it won't be possible to resold your digital things. (this last one I'm not completely sure about)
0 like dislike
Lerianis

After jumping through a bunch of hoops. MAN! That is the issue, people do not want to have to jump through a bunch of fricking hoops to share their LEGALLY BOUGHT GAMES with their friends and family.

Paid troll from Microsoft above, ignore.
-3 like dislike
punkJD

Yes, but see the positive side of the DRM, you could also share your gold and digital Content with your family and friends, without them having to log on your account.,
I'm just trying to make a point here, it's just an opinion.
1 like dislike
Kenshin217

I have 15, and counting, video game consoles and 130, and counting video games.

Unfortunately, I was not always in the position to get them. I am now. If this rights management was implemented before, I would not be able to walk into a used game store and buy what I can no longer buy new.

This is one thing that has historically been great about gaming. You have always been able to go back and get something that isn't made anymore and enjoy it again. Some would argue that digital remakes can be created, but as someone who has 3 different versions of the original Final Fantasy, I can say that the experience just is not the same.
1 like dislike
punkJD

I understand you. But now Xbox let's you do that too. And remember that the game companies can put a protection so you only can use it on one console or the thing with the pass that you have to buy if you buy an used game. So even if the consoles let you buy and sell used games the game companies can do the opposite.
0 like dislike
Lerianis

Those 'protections' will be rightly hacked sooner or later, just like they always have been. I personally have been downloading a bunch of Wii downloadable and PSP downloadable games that aren't available in the United States (they are Japanese language games) and the Dolphin developers and PPSSPP have already cracked that DRM they used on those programs.

These companies would do better to stop worrying about 'piracy', 99% of it is lack of ability to buy the games/movies/music in question for a legitimate price in the country where the person lives.
Give people a reasonably priced option to 'buy legal' WITHOUT Digital Restrictions Management and they will most of the time if they have any disposable income.

That's another problem: a lot of people don't have the disposable income that they once had anymore. I earn 60 K a year and only spend 20K of that on essentials so I have a big disposable income that I can use on games. A lot of other people who only earn 20 K period do not.
0 like dislike
punkJD

Yes. But if you're a person that maintains your system always genuine you'll always have the protections. If the xbox still had the DRM sooner or later people would also be able to install a custom firmware that would let you always play offline.

To download those games you only need to change your region, not a big deal.
Youtube is not available in Portugal in the 360 and other services, but i can used them, because i changed my region to the US.

And yes, that's true, many people don't have enough money to buy games and so they do piracy.
But as companies receive a lot of money this way they don't care about those people and still want to do everything to fight against piracy.

I personally almost never bought a game to PC, to my psp or to my ps2.
i only buy know because i have more budget and because i love to play online and some times that's a problem with "pirated" games.
1 like dislike
Lerianis

Apparently, you miss that consoles have that dippery called "Region Locks" that are hard-coded in the console and impossible to override. I am NOT buying two of the same console solely to play games made overseas.

Forget that, that is dipshittery and insanity.
0 like dislike
punkJD

Yes, ok, that's right, i hadn't think in that.
But, okay, most of the things you just need to change the region to be able to use them.
1 like dislike
chadpatrick

Microsoft released a statement on June 19, outlining how the policies as originally envisioned would be dropped in favor of a system that works in much the same way as the Xbox 360. The new policies include no internet connection requirements, saving for a one-time connection upon initial installation, discs no longer requiring authentication, and no regional restrictions.
1 like dislike
Lerianis

Those are NOT positive sides of the fricking DRM. Those are things that could be done WITHOUT any DRM besides a log-in to an account. There is a difference between Digital Restrictions Management and a SITE LOGIN. Huge differences.

You are equating one with the other and I'm not going to let it stand, because it is bullcrap.

You are an INDUSTRY PAID TROLL or someone who is way too stupid to realize that you do NOT have to give up ANY rights to sell your bought games and other things to get those other things.

It's a FALSE EQUIVALENCY. Just like the NSA asking us to let them spy on us to stop terrorism is a false equivalency.
-3 like dislike
chadpatrick

Your ignorance is astonishing. Is it intentional or purely accidental?
0 like dislike
punkJD

WTF ? Oh yeah, I'm a paid troll, that's right. I'm 17.
I'm not saying that the restrictions to sell Games were good, but to Microsoft allow you to play physical games once they were installed without put the disc on the console and to see your games on other xboxs through the cloud. So they needed to check your connection once every 24 hours so you wouldn't install your games on several consoles to all people then play the games without the disc. Without the DRM that's not possible anymore. Do you understand my point now ?
-1 like dislike
chadpatrick

Some of these people will just never get it, man. You're exactly right. The fact is the previous model would have given more freedoms than the "unrestricted" model.
1 like dislike
punkJD

Yes, that's what i think. Finally, someone with the same opinion.
But, still an awesome console and I'm still gonna buy it.
0 like dislike
chadpatrick

Likewise. Preordered mine already.
0 like dislike
Xontic

I pre-ordered mine with the old rule set and changed nothing when it changed. The other capabilities that this system offers are magnificent. I blame it's poor reception due to the (being generous here) lackluster explanation of what they were bringing that was fresh and exciting. The messaging of M$ since the reveal was nothing short of terrible, but in that mess, if you could think a slight bit into the future as to what you would use the features for, well it's a pretty darn slick and exciting console.

We only lost the family share plan for now, but fast swapping is still in play for Downloaded games... they also stated that Family plan isn't gone for sharing, but rather in the hold section till post launch to make sure everything they do have is functional.

I'm excited for what 2014 holds in store!
1 like dislike
chadpatrick

I agree. Consumers lost out and they don't even know it. But it is because of the way it was presented. It should have been "Here is what you are going to be able to do with your XBOX One ... and here are thing things we need to make it happen and why." Instead it was "You must always be connected. If you can't, I hope you like your XBOX 360, because that's what you get." The tone of Microsoft was all wrong. They came out in a take-it-or-leave-it tone. And were surprised when people who didn't understand chose to "leave it".

The funny thing is, if Steam announced the exact same system with the exact same requirements and benefits, these ignorant gamers would have been all over it. But because it is Microsoft, it is automatically viewed as evil corporate greed.

The model proposed by Microsoft (or something very similar) will be the model for gaming in the future. People just don't know what they actually want. As Henry Ford reportedly said “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse.”


Timing also didn't help them. The leaks of NSA spying on Americans does not exactly help people accept and always connected, high definition, night-vision camera and microphone into the house.
2 like dislike
punkJD

I might not buy it at the launching because i don't know if i can get enough money until the launching. But sooner or later i'm buying it for sure.
0 like dislike
chadpatrick

As much as it pains me I will likely be selling the two XBOXes in my house and about 20 games to GameStop to offset the costs. I know that I will not get as much as I should for them but they offer a 30% bonus if you apply that money toward the purchase of an XB1. Plus I can use my PowerUp Rewards points to get a $50 coupon and a $25 coupon. All in all, I should have about $400 or better toward my purchase before I have to come out of pocket for any.
0 like dislike
punkJD

That's really Good. After i finish all my Games i'll see what i can get for my Xbox, two controllers and around 24 games. But as mine is the arcade version with no hdd they will give less mine. But if i can get around 200€ for all that, it's good.
0 like dislike
Lerianis

Just because you are 17 does NOT mean that you cannot be a paid troll.

That is like saying that a 12 year old who is mowing another person's lawn is not getting paid to do so. 99% of the time, yes, they are.
-2 like dislike
punkJD

Yes, but it was stupid someone get paid just to come to a forum to say shits.
and it's improbable that a 17 years old guy is already involved with a company like Microsoft.

0 like dislike
Lerianis

Like it is improbable for a 12 year old to own/run a multi-million dollar business? Which has been shown on the news numerous times lately?

No, it's not as unlikely as you seem to think.
-1 like dislike

This post has been removed.

punkJD

It's not impossible but improbable. And even more improbable was seeing here in this forum someone like that wasting their time.
0 like dislike
Lerianis

It's not wasting their time when gdgt is a VERY well respected technology website that MANY people go to for information on products and specifically for what REAL PEOPLE think about the products.

You are just as much a shill as he is or someone with way too much time on his hands if you keep replying to all my posts busting your bunkus.
-2 like dislike
punkJD

I'm not saying it isn't a good website, i like it.
But for sure he wouldn't waste time in this kind of discussions.
1 like dislike
mikeisfly

I disagree, I think the statement here is if you have a disc there will be no checking but if you install the game on the Hard Drive then there will be checking. Which is what I suspected Sony would do. I'm not mad at this capitulation. The old system didn't bother me because I don't ever plan to not have internet.
0 like dislike
TgD

You are correct. My intent was to say that you must have a disc in the console to play that game. Online or Offline. Internet connection does not matter anymore. Its the same system the current X360 uses, unless you bought Games On Demand of course.
2 like dislike
Kenshin217

The Linux thing was a niche market thing. Sony also introduced, and subsequently removed, Linux for the PlayStation 2. Personally, I think you should get a PlayStation 2 if you want to play PlayStation 2 games.
-2 like dislike
Lerianis

Yes, but it was a niche market that Sony AGREED THAT THEY WOULD SUPPORT! That is why people were angry in the extreme when they said "We won't support it anymore!"

It was taking away functionality that people were guaranteed and it should have gotten (I believe it DID get) a class action lawsuit levied against them.

Once you include something in a console it doesn't matter if it hacked out the frigging wazoo... YOU DO NOT REMOVE THAT FUNCTIONALITY unless you want to metaphorically die in the perceptions of the people who know the most about computers and technology.
0 like dislike
frankspin

I think it's good that they listened to the community but I think it's still a bit too late for me.
4 like dislike
Mitchellmckenna

Although I can see a lot of people agreeing, saying "it's too late" half a year before the next gen consoles even come out seems funny.
4 like dislike
frankspin

I understand it's silly but what it comes down to for me is that I don't need to upgrade either of my consoles right now but based on E3 and how things have been handled, if I had to choose I'd still stay with PlayStation.
0 like dislike
Lerianis

The point is that they shouldn't have tried that insanity in the first place.
There was absolutely NO reason why they needed to do these anti-consumer Digital RESTRICTIONS Management things. It was just an attempt to do the "BUY THING NUMEROUS TIMES! CANNOT SHARE WITH YOUR FRIENDS!" bull that some other companies have tried and... yeah, they got smack in the choppers over with a metal gauntlet.

These companies are getting ARROGANT and trying to dictate to people what they can do with their own bought games and equipment. It's time to say that is not acceptable and will not stand and if they try? They will be arrested and put into prison for trying it!

Just like someone breaking into my home and messing with my computer without my permission (no, just signing a BS ToS that most people do not read does NOT sign away my rights) would get them put into prison for a long time.
-1 like dislike
mikeisfly

that's probably because you were never going to buy one in the first place.
0 like dislike
hpka

Backtracked for the better here. I'm actually somewhat pleased that common sense is prevailing in these regards. It seems this has killed region locking, a good thing!
1 like dislike
wyldtek

It takes me from a maybe to a yes. Eventually.
1 like dislike
Nymo

This is a win for gamers (and in some sense, GameStop, but that's a whole other story) and it's a good thing that Microsoft listened, despite the past week of them arguing their point that their online restrictions are good. While it's a big press mess, gamers still got what they asked for. (despite losing some potential features)

For the most part, Microsoft is now on an equal playing field as Sony now, but there are still aspects that they should also consider tackling that gamers are still very concerned about:

Kinect
To the hardcore gamers who are going to be there buying the system from day-one more so than the casual living-room audience, that crowd is just not interested in Kinect. In fact, they're afraid of it. While Microsoft has said that there will be privacy settings for Kinect, it still scares people that it's constantly listening and watching, even knowing who you are, your expression, and amazingly your heart rate. Also, gamers don't want Kinect functionality shoe-horned into their games unnecessarily. Not to mention that many has had bad experience with the Kinect before and it's rather wobbly body-tracing. While the Xbox One Kinect will be improved, all these aspects are why many want to see Kinect be an option add-on. (For the record: Sony's PlayStation Camera will not be bundled in with each PS4).
This brings me to another crucial part that may keep people from buying an Xbox One;

Price
Even with the DRM gone, Xbox One is still a full $100 more than PS4, most likely to the more sophisticated Kinect tech. Had it been $100 less without a Kinect, I can guarantee you that gamers will go for that.
There has been talks that Microsoft will go with a subsidized model for less upfront, and that can be a crucial blow to Sony. If MS makes it, say, $299 or so subsidized, the normal person at the big-box store will take interest in that over the $399 PS4, even though the Xbox One will cost more in the long run. Speaking of price;

Xbox LIVE Gold
Microsoft needs to make Xbox LIVE Gold more worth it. Having the paygate just to use almost ANY online feature is crazy and won't make sense to the TV-watching audience they're also targeting when everything else like Apple TV or Roku doesn't require an additional subscription on top of their Netflix or other streaming service. Hell: Sony isn't even doing that. Even though PlayStation Plus is now required for online multiplayer, they decided that streaming media like Netflix will not require that additional membership. On top of that: Sony has added great value to PS+ with the likes of free games each month and other features. While MS is also now trying out free games, they're just 2 old Xbox 360 games from now until the end of the year. PS+, however, has 18 free games once you subscribe across PS3 & Vita, and soon, free PS4 games as well.

Even without these issues covered yet (if ever), there are still some interest coming back to Xbox One. However: Not everyone is on board. Many are still critical about how Microsoft is handling things right now, on top of these glaring points as well. So far, Sony has won over the gamer mindshare ever since February when they announced the PS4, and MS has just been struggling and stumbling in the way they present themselves to gamers.
Though, as we seen today: Anything can change. It's clear that Microsoft is not giving up this generation and will do whatever it takes to win. So, who knows what will happen when the consoles release later this year...
1 like dislike
PexCorrh

If you have an android device your privacy is in a far more dire state than having a Kinect in your living room connected to a powered down console.
-1 like dislike
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