Officers' Quarters: The guy who won't run back

Siege of Orgrimmar entrance

Every Monday, Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership. He is the author of The Guild Leader's Handbook.

What kind of monster never runs back after a wipe? This week, a guild leader is pondering his options after one of his raiders fails to grasp the teamwork aspects of raiding.

Hi Scott!

In June of 2013, I formed a guild with a few close wow friends, all who were part of the guild we were previously in which fell apart.

The guild has prospered. We started off as a Flex only guild and have come along way since, currently 13/14N. Nine out of the ten raiders are great apart from one, an officer and one of the original members of the guild.

He's a good skilled player but his attitude has left me speechless quite a few times. He has rage quit raids before because we couldn't raid till normal raid time. He has threatened to rage quit raids because he was subbed out to give another raider a chance at loot. He challenges every new tactic we have for a boss. If you don't share his opinion well, ill just say he's headstrong! He never runs back in after wipes either. It got to the stage where I was sick of him but I just couldn't bring myself to do anything about it. He followed me to the new guild and trusted me. I know now that that was stupid to do. I let it go on too long and it has led to some drama.

One of our raiders had enough of him and lashed out, calling him various things and saying he was fed up of him. I decided after chastising that raid member that I wasn't going to let him away with it any longer. I took him aside and said I had enough and after an hour long conversation that got nowhere I told him to change his attitudes or I would drop him. He said he didn't like my tone and refused to come to the next raid. When he didn't show, I decided to drop him from the team for a while as punishment for his behaviour.

[...]One of our healers, a close friend of his is very annoyed over him being dropped and has said it has put a "bitter taste" in her mouth.

How do I contain the fallout from this? I want to demote him and be rid of him. I also did like him as a friend once. I'm really confused over this. I would greatly appreciate any insights you have.

Yours Sincerely

Distressed Guild/Raid Leader.

Yikes. His behavior seems not just immature to me, but irrational. Quitting a raid because the raid won't go as long as you want? That seems not just spiteful but self-defeating. It's like refusing to eat any pizza at all just because your table couldn't afford a whole pie.

Offering alternatives to strategies can be constructive, if it's done with respect. If his approach is negative, however, then even when he's right, it's still creating a problem.

A little attitude in raiding doesn't hurt -- as long as it's all directed toward helping the guild and the raid to succeed. It doesn't sound like that is the case here.

Seriously, he won't even run back?

What hoists the red flags for me, over everything else, is his "me first" mindset. That's what I can't abide -- and you shouldn't either. Raiding is a team game. If you're never willing to sit out for a boss so a guildmate can get a drop, then you're putting your own fun before the raid's progress. That's counterproductive and selfish. No guild can afford to have people like that on the roster for long.

Every time he disagrees with something, his answer is to ragequit or not show up. That makes him unreliable to boot. He's punishing the entire guild when he doesn't get his way. Threatening to quit when he's dissatisfied is just as bad. It's akin to taking the raid team hostage to his demands.

You've already done what I would have advised you to do. You had a long, straightforward chat about his behavior and its negative impact on the guild. Instead of taking this talk to heart, he lashed out.


Frankly, he doesn't belong on a raid team or in a guild at all until he can both control himself and learn that other people are important, too. He needs to realize that his words and his actions have consequences. Those consequences have been bad for the guild and for you.

Your current raiders may be used to him. They may not all like him, but they understand him. New recruits, on the other hand, will be appalled at his behavior. They won't understand that it's just him. They will think that everyone in the guild must be like that or that such behavior is the norm. Your raider will drive people away from the guild.

This is no longer about "containing the fallout," I'm sorry to say. This is now about moving on. For the long-term health of your roster, it's time to ask him to leave. Start recruiting for a replacement, if you need one.

It sounds like you may lose a healer also. There may not be anything you can do about it. If she is determined to stand by her friend no matter how he behaves, you can't change her mind.

Maybe in time he will learn how to fit into a team, but he has not been receptive to your attempts to teach him. At least you tried. Many guild leaders would have booted him without a second thought.

Minimize the postkick drama

When your players ask you about this raider's absence, I recommend that you say nothing about it except that you asked him to leave. Your members will know why already. Anything you say could get back to this player and encourage him to harass the guild and its members from the outside. It happens. Protect yourself and your guild and don't say a word about him once he's gone.

I regret that I don't have a better solution for you here. Sometimes the only choice is to let a person know they're no longer welcome and wish them good luck in the future.


Officers' Quarters keeps your guild leadership on track to cope with sticky situations such as members turned poachers or the return of an ex-guild leader and looking forward to what guilds need in Mists of Pandaria. Send your own guild-related questions and suggestions to